Dear Alexander,
Thanks for this painting - I've never seen it before. I agree these
ribs look uniformly scalloped. Interestingly the lute in the background
looks like a modern oud, with the edges rounded off!
Best wishes,
Martin
On 10/02/2011 00:01, Alexander Batov wrote:
Dear Martin & All,
Here is the promised picture:
http://www.vihuelademano.com/current/pages/Bartolomeo-Bettera_fluted-ribs-lute.htm
As always in cases with historical iconography - however accurate and
realistic it appears to us - we would still remain at the mercy of the
artists. Having said that, such painters as Bartolomeo Bettera and
Evaristo Baschenis are quite exemplary in rendering the finest details
of musical instruments in their numerous still-life paintings. This
particular painting is unique in a sense that it shows virtually
cross-sectional view of the lute body, with the amount of fluting in
the ribs that goes far beyond of what can be 'naturally' achieved with
paper lining re-enforcement of the rib joints.
Alexander
PS: I wonder if there is somebody on this list who perhaps lives in
Prague (or going to travel to and visit the National Gallery there)
and can make a better picture of this painting? That would be mostly
appreciated!
On 08/02/2011 23:44, Alexander Batov wrote:
Thank you, Martin.
I know perfectly well the distortion effect you are describing (both
from my own experience and old lutes) but the fluting that is caused
by paper lining re-enforcement of the joints doesn't quite appear so
consistent and pronounced as it looks on some of the paintings. Or
perhaps it's just my wishful thinking ...
Anyway, I wouldn't probably take this fluting idea so far if it
wasn't one particular painting where it appears just a bit too
extreme as only being caused solely by the linings. I believe the
painting is attributed to one of the painters from Bartolomeo Bettera
/ Evaristo Baschenis circle. It's a bit late in the day but I try to
upload it, perhaps tomorrow, so that you can have a look. The quality
of the reproduction in the book is not great and it's in black and
white, nevertheless the fluting is quite clear.
Well, it is of course possible that the nut is sunk in the middle
under the static string tension but that would be a rather big design
fault that I can't imagine they would allow, in the golden age of
lute making. Maybe we just expect too much from this painting.
Alexander
On 08/02/2011 22:20, Martin Shepherd wrote:
Hi Alexander,
Yes, the ribs here seem to stay fluted even as they go over the
block, but in general old lutes seem to have developed the fluting
after they were taken off the mould. I glue my paper linings in
wet, and find that when they shrink they tend to pull the ribs into
a fluted shape, which can be enhanced by choosing the grain
direction of the rib in the first place. Many old lutes seem to
have been distorted in the same way, because they show a sharp curve
up towards the rib join and a relatively flat middle of the rib
(hard to explain in words but easy to see).
No, I can't see any reason to slope the nut rebate either, but it
would work fine as shown in the painting, so I don't see any reason
to disbelieve it, and I think I have seen this in other paintings as
well - sorry I can't remember which ones.
What do you think the lump is inside the pegbox on the treble side?
I think there's one on the bass side as well, but it's less clear.
Best wishes,
Martin
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