Dear Martyn, The problem is not that the level of Saint-Luc research is poor. It's rather high, and dates back to the 19th century. And it is simply not true that the principal writers are generalists.
Philippe Vendrix, a lutenist, is one of France's leading musicologists. He is dean of the Centre d'Études Supériores de la Renaissance, He is Director of Research for the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, And he is editor-in-chief of Acta Musicologica (the journal of the International Musicological Society). His partner in Saint-Luc research is Manuel Couveur, Professor of Musicology at the Free University of Brussels. Between them, they really have all bases covered, French and Flemish, so to speak (to use an American baseball metaphor). They are positioned not only by expertise, but also geographically to examine archival records related to Saint-Luc. Brussels, may I remind you, was Jacques de Saint-Luc's musical home town. He was not French. He was trained at court with ITALIAN and SPANISH musicians, under the director of chamber music, Giuseppe Zamponi. Jacques performed villancicos at court when he was 13 (was he a Wunderkind?), and the court owned vihuelas. His teacher may have been court lutenist/theorbist Philippe Vermeulen, who as a youngster was sent by the court to Italy to "perfect" his abilities on theorbo with Piccinini. The "cantabile" of his style that Baron remarked about, was there from the Italian influences of his training. He didn't write 200 pieces all in Vienna. That he wrote so much music is accounted for by his attaining the age of at least 96. I think I resent more than anything your suggestion that he was too old and feebled to write music and travel, and using that as an excuse to attribute his works to his sons. And he was not in his 90s when he traveled to Berlin. He was 84. The sensation of his playing may have been due to his age. Was Verdi feeble-minded when he wrote Otello and Falstaff? What about Stravinsky? One would never have expected him to end his career writing serial music. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT SAINT-LUC'S SONS WERE MUSICIANS. And you can bet Couveur and Vendrix looked high and low to find them. The Saint-Lucs were NOT a dynastic family of musicians. Enough for now. The harm is done, and Couveur and Vendrix have already begun to set the record straight. Our responsibility is to realize what happened as a result of those fictional original New Grove and 1963 MGG articles. The recent New Grove Saint-Luc article has been completely re-written. I haven't seen the latest MGG. Arthur. ============================================== To: "A. J. Ness" <[email protected]>; "Monica Hall" <[email protected]> Cc: "Lutelist" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:59 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience
Well - as you both already well know - the current level of scholarship is so poor that the elder and younger Saint Jacques generally appear as one. But the real issue is that the real passion and merit of this music is lost by such a generalist approach. ythfo Martyn --- On Thu, 31/3/11, Monica Hall <[email protected]> wrote: From: Monica Hall <[email protected]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience To: "A. J. Ness" <[email protected]> Cc: "Lutelist" <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, 31 March, 2011, 21:01 Don't even mention Grove - as far as the baroque guitar is concerned it is full of errors.<sigh, sigh. sigh> Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. J. Ness" <[1][email protected]> To: "Monica Hall" <[2][email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience > That's what makes me angry about the Jacques de Saint-Luc article in New Grove (first ed. and MGG 1963). Musica Rara has puibo. all the Suittes dessus and bassus, andattributres them one by one to three different composers named St.Luc.<sigh> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monica Hall" <[3][email protected]> > To: "Monica Hall" <[4][email protected]> > Cc: "Lutelist" <[5][email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:23 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience > > >> Yes - the music is fun and I really enjoyed hearing the solo pieces too - but liner notes are just nonsense. They have just made it all up as a kind of concept to hang the recording on. >> >> Really it's irresponsible - because what they have said is now being repeated as if it were true. >> >> What a world we live in..... >> >> Monica >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monica Hall" <[6][email protected]> >> To: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[7][email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 8:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience >> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[8][email protected]> >>> To: "'Lutelist'" <[9][email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 8:12 PM >>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience >>> >>> >>>> I quite like that CD (especially the guitar solos that they opted to record >>>> as solos), but the liner notes do strike me as a bit "whimsical." >>>> >>>> Eugene >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [10][email protected] [mailto:[11][email protected]] On >>>>> Behalf Of Monica Hall >>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:10 PM >>>>> To: Jean-Marie Poirier >>>>> Cc: Lutelist >>>>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Foscarini Experience >>>>> >>>>> Wow - that was quick work. That must be the picture. But is there any >>>>> evidence that the lutenist is Foscarini? >>>>> >>>>> To be honest - when I first read the liner notes to the CD I thought they >>>>> were a work of fiction. But perhaps I am missing something. >>>>> >>>>> Monica >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jean-Marie Poirier" <[12][email protected]> >>>>> To: "Monica Hall" <[13][email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 8:05 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Foscarini Experience >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Monica, >>>>> > >>>>> > Would that be the picture you are looking for ? >>>>> > If yes, it's just across the street, VAM ;-) ! >>>>> > Here's a link with details : >>>>> > [14]http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O18973/painting-the-ommeganck-in- >>>>> brussels-on/ >>>>> > >>>>> > All the best, >>>>> > >>>>> > Jean-Marie >>>>> > >>>>> > ================================= >>>>> > >>>>> > == En reponse au message du 31-03-2011, 20:54:29 == >>>>> > >>>>> >> I came across this CD by the group Foscarini Experience with the >>>>> title >>>>> >> "Bon voyage" some time ago. In the liner notes it mentions an >>>>> >> illustration which features Foscarini on a wagon playing the lute >>>>> >> together with a girl with a triangle and a violone player which >>>>> >> apparently dates from 1615 and is part of an illustration of a >> feast >>>>> >> held for the Archduchess Isabella Clara Eugenia, the wife of the >>>>> >> Archduke Albert. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Does anyone know anything about this illustration and whether the >>>>> >> lutenist is clearly identified as Foscarini. I have done a bit >> of >>>>> >> surfing the net but haven't found any trace of it. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Monica >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> -- >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>To get on or off this list see list information at >>>>> >>[15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>> > >>>>> > ======================================== >>>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > -- References 1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 9. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 10. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 11. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 12. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 13. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 14. http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O18973/painting-the-ommeganck-in- 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
