Dear Martyn et al,
Just in answer to your surmise, this is Barley's instruction for the
Orpharion. In his instruction for the Bandora he just says that the
same considerations apply as for the Orpharion.
TO THE READER COURTEOUS AND FRIENDLY READER, as thou hast seene
before what my good will hath beene to pleasure thee in the
practise of the Lute, so here in this booke thou mayest perceave
my endevoure continued to acquaint thee likewise with the stately
Orpharion, although indeede that the lessons which are played
upon the Lute may as well be played upon the Orpharion, and
likewise the lessons which are played upon the Orpharion may bee
played upon the Lute: But this difference is to be considered
betweene them. First for that the Orpharion is strong with more
stringes than the Lute, and also hath more frets or stops, and
whereas the Lute is strong with gut strings, the Orpharion is
strong with wire stringes, by reason of which manner of
stringing, the Orpharion doth necessarilie require a more gentle
& drawing stroke than the Lute, I meane the fingers of the right
hand must be easilie drawen over the stringes, and not suddenly
griped, or sharpelie stroken as the Lute is: for if yee should
doo so, then the wire stringes would clash or jarre together the
one against the other; which would be a cause that the sounde
would bee harsh and unpleasant: Therefore it is meete that you
observe the difference of the stroke. And concerning the frets or
stoppes, the difference doth consist in the different number that
is betweene them, for the Lute hath no farther than i. and the
Orpharion hath to q. but it is seldome that any lesson for the
Orpharion doth passe the stops of L. or M. yet those that are
cunning, can at their pleasure make use for all the stops. And
for that which may bee said of the cunning or of the diversitie
of accords with the true manner of fingering or handling the
necke and bellie of the Orpharion, the former rules that are in
the Instruction to the Lute will sufficiently instruct thee,
onely the difference of the stroke excepted, as I have shewed
before, which must bee more gentle and drawing, and not so sudden
and sharpe as the Lute is alwaies stroken. Thus hoping thou wilt
accept both of my travaile & charge seeing my paines hath beene
imployed to pleasure all those that are desirous to bestowe some
times on the practise of this Instrument, and cannot at all times
have a Tutor.
Best wishes,
David
At 08:25 +0100 14/6/11, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Very interesting Nancy and confirms my own view.
Very little work seems to have been done on Bandora stringing and
what
was done (much by Eph Segerman many years ago) was largely
speculation.
There are a few factors arising from this which I think we should
try
to address:
1. I'm not sure that bridges coming off a Bandora suggests, if
correctly glued, they cannot withstand normal lute tensions for
an
instrument of this string length. Bass lute (ie similar string
length/tensions) bridges don't normally fail. The design bandora
bridges is different to that of lutes with strings fastened
around a
hitch pin at the rear of the bridge and passing over the top of
the
bridge (rather than through it as the lute). But based on the
Palmer
orpharion, I think a bandora bridge might have been low even by
lute
standards (my old Palmer dyeline print has now faded so much that
it's
difficult to measure with any precision).
2. Most of the modern Bandoras I've come across seem to be set up
with
a very low tension which, as discussed, make it very easy to
displace
the strings and result in poor intonation. The sole historical
justification for this practice, of which I'm aware, is an early
source
(is it Barley?) saying that care must be taken when plucking the
orpharion/bandora to avoid string clashing. But, of course, this
may be
related to the closer inter-string seperation on wire string
instruments than with lutes.
2. One late piece of information is Roger North telling us that a
Bandora could stand up against a harpsichord; but this is late
and, I
presume, relating to plectrum play for continuo purposes.
Nevertheless
I think it might indicate a relatively heavy stringing may have
been
used even in the earlier period.
I'll copy this to the cittern list and to the lute builder list
for any
comment.
regards
Martyn
--- On Mon, 13/6/11, Nancy Carlin
<[email protected]>
wrote:
From: Nancy Carlin <[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: bandora tunes
To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[email protected]>, "Lute Net"
<[email protected]>, "Stuart Walsh" <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, 13 June, 2011, 18:53
I have found that slightly high string tension does mean that
it is
easier not to pull the strings just enough out of alignment so
that
the
intonation suffers. But you also need to make sure that the
instrument
is up to the tension - there are lots of stories about
wire-strung
instruments with the bridges coming off. Before changing any
strings I
would play the instrument enough to make sure that it's not
"operator
error." With all of the ones I have played (cittern,
orpharions &
bandora) there are individual places where you have a tendency
to
pull
fretting strings out of tune, especially with the 3rd finger.
If you find it is indeed the strings, I have had the best
results
with
strings from Andrew Hartig
[1][email protected]
They had more evenly balanced tension from course to course
and cost
my
less than NRI strings.
Nancy
Dear Stuart,
You may find a higher string tension (ie use thicker
strings)
will help
in tuning stability.
MH
--- On Mon, 13/6/11, Stuart Walsh
<[2][email protected]>
wrote:
From: Stuart Walsh <[3][email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] bandora tunes
To: "Lute Net" <[4][email protected]>
Date: Monday, 13 June, 2011, 12:29
I've got the Lute Society's bandora on loan. It's a nice
instrument.
used to have one years ago but I'd forgotten how
difficult it
is
to
get these things tolerably in tune. Here's a go at three
very
short
pieces from Thomas Brown's 'Bandore and lyra viol book'
(about
which I
know nothing), copied out years ago by Donald Gill. (And
thanks
to
Peter Forrester). The tuning isn't quite right - but not
too
far
out, I
hope.
[1][1] [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipGcIA8EUX8
and here's a couple of RT's uke tunes
[2][6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f22GLlsLZug
Stuart
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. [2][8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipGcIA8EUX8
2. [3][9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f22GLlsLZug
3.
[4][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Nancy Carlin Associates
P.O. Box 6499
Concord, CA 94524 USA
phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582
web sites - [5]www.nancycarlinassociates.com
[6]www.groundsanddivisions.info
Representing:
FROM WALES - Crasdant & Carreg Lafar, FROM ENGLAND - Jez
Lowe &
Jez
Lowe & The Bad Pennies, and now representing EARLY MUSIC - The
Venere
Lute Quartet, The Good Pennyworths & Morrongiello & Young
Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
web site - [7][11]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org
--
References
1. [12]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipGcIA8EUX8
2. [13]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipGcIA8EUX8
3. [14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f22GLlsLZug
4. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. [16]http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/
6. [17]http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/
7. [18]http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/
--
References
1.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=subsonic_vacation@earth
link.net
2.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
3.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
4.
http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipGcIA8EUX8
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f22GLlsLZug
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipGcIA8EUX8
9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f22GLlsLZug
10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/
12. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipGcIA8EUX8
13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipGcIA8EUX8
14. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f22GLlsLZug
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
16. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/
17. http://www.groundsanddivisions.info/
18. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/
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