Dear Andreas,
Thank you very much for the citations in the AMZ. It would have taken me a
week to find them. At my age, I remember information, but cannot recall
where I found it, or where I've filed it away.<g>
You wrote:
There's a last sentence after your citation: "unn die Ebrer quint saitten
muß man dem t (= 2nd course 4th fret) gleich ziehen/ so ist der zug
recht." The question is: What's the "Ebrer quint saitten"? Is it the
octave string of the 4th course (perhaps really the same string type as
the Quint saitten alias 1st course)? I will ask the specialist and
inform you and the list.
Newsidler calls the octave string of the fifth course "Kleinsaitte," and
even defines it as <<Kleinsaitte die Newen [=neben] dem mitl Brumer stet,
der zieffer fürn, gleich als da 4<<
Baron calls these octave strings <<Bombärtlein>>
So it's tuned to the cipher 4 (=second course open; NOT fourth fret). See
the facsimile that I'll post with part 2. Also I comment on that last
sentence. It's a five course lute, so the top string is the Quintsaitte.
As far as I know the standard designation in German lute terminology for the
top
course is "Quintsaite," because German tablature was originally devised for
a five course instrument. Modern German for the top string of any string
instrument, e.g., violin, guitar, is <<Sangsaite.>>
The second course in called <<Kleinsangsaite>>.
Here are the courses as I understand them to be called in German:
I. Quintsaite
II. Kleinsangsaite
III. Grosssangsaite
IV. Kleinbrummer
V. Mittelbrummer
VI. Grossbrummer
Thanks for you input, Andi. I've been very busy, so part two will still
follow.
Arthur
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andreas Schlegel" <lute.cor...@sunrise.ch>
To: "A. J. Ness" <arthurjn...@verizon.net>
Cc: "G. Crona" <kalei...@gmail.com>; "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:40 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: (1 of 2) Judentanz (was) Re: What's the point to
'historical sound'
Dear Arthur,
Thanks very much for your reply! And sorry for the corrections - the
Trafficante system is neither made for splitted octave strings nor for
octave transpositions... and I realized my mistake too late...
Thank you very much for your comments. I have a vague recollection that
German tablature was discussed somewhere in the Allgemeine musikalische
Zeitung early in the 19th century, but exactly when, I cannot recall.
And
of course Baron mentions German
tablature, apparently the first mention for over a century. He even
reproduces the Newsidler Lautenkragen.
Of course there exist older citations of the old treatises with the
"Lautenkragen" - but the Pearsall transcriptions were the first - as far I
know - for practical use. Joachim Lüdtke and me made a list of all (we
hope) tablature transcriptions from Kiesewetter (I think that's you meant,
it's in AMZ 1831, nr. 3, col. 33-38; nr. 5, col. 65-74 and Beilage 1, p.
2-4; nr. 9, col. 133-145 and Beilage 3, p. 1-8; nr. 12, col. 181-186; nr.
16, col. 249-259; nr. 17, col. 272-276; nr. 23, col. 365-376 and Beilage
4, p.1-4) up to the beginning of the 20th century. We will publish this
list on www.accordsnouveaux.ch under "book - The Lute in Europe 2" -
"material" - but first only in German. It's one of the lists who had no
place in the book...
Thank you for reminding me about Podolski's article. I re-read it again
early this morning. I had forgotten about it. I think he may misread the
German when he sets
forth his idea of a split course. The instructions say to tune the
"Kleinsaitte die Newen dem mitl Brumer stet, der zieffer fuern, gleich
als
da 4" (the octave string [Kleinsaite] next to the fifth string) to the
second course ("4"
in German tablature), not to the fourth fret of the second course. Ziffer
means a number or cipher, and a fret would be Bund or Gryff (as HN spells
it). To spell it out as Fuern (Vier?) and then as a number ("4") is just
the kind of redundancy one finds in writigs back then. Anyway, that's my
take on it. What do you think? How does he get fret out of that?
It's really a very tricky text - even for a native speaker. So I have to
ask a specialist for this language to work together on that. I will inform
when it's done.
But I think Podolski has not misread. There's a last sentence after your
citation: "unn die Ebrer quint saitten muß man dem t (= 2nd course 4th
fret) gleich ziehen/ so ist der zug recht." The question is: What's the
"Ebrer quint saitten"? Is it the octave string of the 4th course (perhaps
really the same string type as the Quint saitten alias 1st course)? I will
ask the specialist and inform you and the list.
Incidentally, it seems that Newsidler might have
a special name for the first course when tuned to that fourth fret
(cipher
"t"). See part 2.
Otherwise it's a rather detailed and complicated discussion of the
various
Judentänze and much derives from Heckel's Judentanz of 1556. He seems to
want to apply the Heckel tuning to the Newsidler piece, and really
doesn';t
address the scordatura tuning as spelled out by HN..
Did you go to Gijon? I hear it was a wonderful conference, and wish so
much
that I could have attended.
Unfortunately, I had no chance to go to Gijon, but Joachim Lüdtke was
there.
All the best,
Andreas
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