Perhaps if you intestine-twiddlers would give a listen to this you may amend
your aberrant ways:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YxVzNZVflL8
I hope I have the link right... :-)
Garry
-----Original Message-----
From: A.J. Padilla MD
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 8:07 PM
To: 'corvo di bassetto' ; 'Lute List'
Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition, period colons etc.
I had considered suggesting we make strings from politician guts instead,
but alas, I assume that in Europe they're as gutless as they are here in the
US.
AJP
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of corvo di bassetto
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 7:53 PM
To: Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition, period colons etc.
Dear luters in the authentic gutter,
I wrote to Nick Baldock (Kathedrale) some days ago asking him for a
statement; no reply so far (maybe he strangled himself in despair with his
last gut; or maybe he fell victim to the prions).
Yet my butcher told me, sausages in beef gut are still available (in
Germany). These sausages figure prominently in the morbid food rites of the
local savages. They are so unbelievably vile that mad cow disease will
actually relieve the suffering of those who ate them, hence the exception to
the EU law.
I changed to silk strings for the upper registers years ago and still play
many of Baldock's large intestines now 8–10 years old on lutes and viols; we
once joked about the future in which luters shunning anachronisms will have
to resort to sausage casings for strings…
Best regards
danyel
Am 21.11.2011 um 18:55 schrieb Anthony Hind:
Dear Martyn
I am grateful to Charles Besnainou (who is a French research person on
strings of all sorts) for helping me to understand this situation a little
better.
Charles learnt gut string making from Sofracob, and he had an excellent
relation with its director M. Lenoble.
He tells me that far from closing because he wasn't making enough profit,
M. Lenoble actually returned to direct the company after retirement just to
try to steer it out of debt. He was proud to have managed to close without
owing anything. Although he was very sad to have closed a company that once
had 150 workers.
%
Charles also tells me that the problem would be exactly the same for
Sofracob at the moment if they still existed.
%
Perhaps, one thing he told me clarifies how it could be that these
rulings for BSE could have been extended to musical string making.
In fact, Sofracob also made medical catgut, and of course this would be
directly in contact with the inside of the body (whereas musical gut usually
remains outside, except possibly if you were to lick it before passing it
through the bridge).
I am not certain about that, but it seems logically possible, that the
ruling was for both surgical and musical strings treated together. The
ruling was against Prions, and of course sheep gut can also contain Prions
(from Scrapes), so I assume it applied to all gut types.
%
I appologise for not being able to give legal interpretations of the BSE
rulings. I did read some of them, but am no legal eagle.
I am myself struggling to understand the issues.
%
I don't think it would be advisable to make any specific statements about
which string makers might be more in danger.
This would only plunge them into more difficulty (hopefully, none ar at
risk right now).
%
I am certainly not in favour of taking risks with BSE, but, as I said
above, I can only understand the exaggerated application of these rules to
string making by its historical association with surgical gut. I believe
there is no more surgical gut in the EU, so it would seem time to loosen
these applications.
However, if you read the petition, it is suggested that health specialists
be involved with altering the application of these rules.
Best regards
Anthony
________________________________
De : Martyn Hodgson <[email protected]> À :
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>; Anthony Hind
<[email protected]> Envoyé le : Lundi 21 Novembre 2011 12h55 Objet
: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc.
Thank you for this Anthony,
I am not particularly sceptical but, like some others, find a certain
lack of clarity in the position.
Your description of how and why Sofracob went out of business is that
they 'could no longer source sufficient raw gut' not that they were
unable to source raw gut at all. The implication from your other recent
mailings is that this was because the EU regulations had reduced if not
entirely eliminated their ability to source raw gut. But I had earlier
believed that Sofracob's decision was purely commercial - on the
grounds of reduced profit margins - perhaps by having to pay more
to
'source sufficient raw gut'. Maybe the same considerations apply to
Aquila?
Regarding BSE, perhaps there is a case to only source safely produced
gut (if not for the players then for the workers who handle the
product). Certainly abattoirs in the UK have very strict regulations
which might have slightly increased wholesale meat costs but we still
get offal and the like - even on supermarket shelves!
I think the concern may be in becoming too over excited about an issue
which may be a non-problem. Has anyone approached Toro or
Keurschner to find out if they anticipate supply difficulties?
regards
Martyn
--- On Mon, 21/11/11, Anthony Hind <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Anthony Hind <[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, Petition etc.
To: "Orphenica" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Date: Monday, 21 November, 2011, 10:56
Dear Orphenica and other sceptical members of this list.
I am afraid I am unable to give you detailed legal
interpretations of the EU BSE regulations, but I will try to
answer
a
few of your questions, and set out why I personally signed the
petition. reasons which seem to have brought a number of luthenists
on
the French lute list (including myself) to sign this petition.
%
Firstly this problem has not just been localised to Italy, even if
the
last company to stop making gut, Aquila, is located there.
Prior to this in 2010, Sofracob (a French company), had to close
their
doors, for exactly the same set of reasons.
%
On the French list, a research string maker who was a friend of the
people working at Sofracob, confirms that Sofracob, the only French
string maker, went out of business after "37 years of service" due
to
EU BSE regulations, as they could no longer source sufficient
raw
gut.
This French researcher tells us that the rules are still in place,
here, but ignored when the lobby group is strong enough, as in the
case
of the chacuterie lobby group. This in itself, it seems to me, is a
sufficient reason to sign the petition. Only "lobbying" may be
effective.
%
We can't save Sofracob, and we may not be able to change Aquila's
decision, but there are two other large companies in the EU, Toro,
in
Italy, and Keurschner in your own country (Germany) who we may be
able
to save; and we must bear in mind that most raw gut used even by US
string makers, comes from the EU, so it is also possibly
endangered
(There are a few very small companies that have their own supply of
sheep gut, and one sourcing from Moroco, but none of these are large
enough to meet demands).
%
Searching the net for information, I see that Mimmo Peruffo in 2006
did
give a warning about the immenent danger from BSE regulation in an
interview with the Guardian (dated Sunday 21 May 2006).
[1][1]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH
(Please note that the Argintinian company mentioned in this text,
went
bancrupt).
%
Peruffo hoped to ask "for an exemption to the ban for a
'historically
significant' craft: 'Without strings, no one could play Bach or
Handel."
%
Unfortunately, nothing followed from this, and Sofracob closed in
February 2010 exactly for this same reason.
%
As members of this list seem sceptical, I think I should copy the
announcement from Sofracob:
FR) SOFRACOB (SociA(c)tA(c) FranAS:aise de Corde en Boyaux) to close
its doors after 37 years of service
Contributed by Admin on Jan 09, 2010
%
"Dear Customer,
%
Ever since the onset of Mad Cow Disease (BSE), we have done our best
to
maintain our business
activity. Unfortunately, however, despite all
our
efforts, we must inform you that SOFRACOB will terminate its
business
at the end of February 2010. We recommend that you purchase some
inventory before our closing, but we must receive your order no
later
than late January. We have always done our utmost to provide you
with
the best in customer satisfaction, and we are sorry to be obliged to
end our collaboration. Pending your eventual orders for the end of
January 2010, you can be certain that this situation has left us
regretful that we will no longer be able to serve you.
%
Sincerely Yours,
Best regards.
Ph. LENOBLE and
VIRGINIE"
%
This text alone would make me sign the petition.
%
It may be that people on the US List feel somehow that this (coming
after the crysis of the Euro) is just another EU problem (certainly
many on the French list have signed the petition); but I think this
would be rather looking at the situation with blinkers. Mimmo's
warning
in 2006 was ignored, and Sofracob closed not long after. Do we want
to
wait for the next "victim"?
%
Regards
Anthony
%
________________________________
De : Orphenica <[2][2][email protected]>
AEUR : "[3][3][email protected]" <[4][4][email protected]>
EnvoyA(c) le : Dimanche 20 Novembre 2011 23h17
Objet : [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc.
Hi collective lute wisdom,
can somebody sum up the situation on gut strings for me. As I am a
heavy gut player, I'd like to
understand what is going on in this field.
As far as I understood it, the production and import of gut strings
(esp. beef gut) used to be forbidden in the EU,
due to cases of BSE some years ago. This jurisdiction has been
withdrawn and production is allowed again, with the exception of
Italy
which missed to cancel the abolition from the national Italian body
of
law.
Aquila stopped the production of gut
strings due to this national Italian jurisdiction AND/OR because it
could not get raw material of sufficient quality, because of import
restrictions.
As I read from the post here on the lists, production in other
countries do not seem to be problematic
If this is the case, petitions addressed to the EU are quite
useless,
petitions should be adressed to the Italian government. I am
inclined
to sign any petition that keeps the production of gut strings
going,
but I am not
quite sure, WHAT is the real nature of the problem.
It would be nice if somebody kindly could sum up the situation for
me.
Thanks
we
Am 19.11.11 16:53, schrieb William Samson:
> Hi Garry,
> Talking of "lip smacking good", there was stuff in Nelson's
navy
called
> 'portable soup' that was made by boiling a vat of soup until
it
> attained the consistency of
thick hide glue, then letting it cool. It
> was broken into slabs that could be re-constituted by the
addition
of
> hot water. I wouldn't be surprised if it was
indistinguishable
from
> hide glue. On the other hand, the sailors enjoyed it - but
then
I
> suppose it was nice compared to weevilly biscuits and salt
beef
that
> had circled the globe several times. Also they wouldn't have
lived
> long enough for the prions to take effect.
> Bill
> From: Garry Warber<[5][5][email protected]>
To: [6][6][email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011,
13:09
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc.
> William,
> Hey, welcome to the mindset in the states... We are not known
as
> "yanks" for nothing. :-) You are right, "loose lips sink
ships",
more
> or less. Of course, there is that prions not being harmed by
cooking
> thing. But as far as I know, only one guy here thinks hide
glue
is
>
"lip-smacking good!" :-)+LOL...
> Garry
> -----Original Message----- From: William Samson
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 3:18 AM
> To: [1][7][7][email protected]
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: gut string, etc.
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>
From: William Samson<[2][8][8][email protected]>
> To: Garry Warber<[3][9][9][email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 8:12
> Subject: Re: [LUTE] gut string, etc.
> >>Is hide glue now also banned in the EU?
> SHHH!!!! I hope none of these Eurocrats is reading this
list!!!
> This'll give them the opportunity to appoint dozens more
overpaid
> officials who get bonuses for imposing bans and senseless
rules
and
> regulations. Remember the 'straight banana' fiasco? Now
they
are
denying they ever
tried to ban curved ones . . .
> Still, the great thing about hide glue is that you can make
your own
> by
> boiling up roadkill in a secret location where the thought
police
> can't
> find you.
> Bill
> PS Orwell's '1984' was a long time coming, but it's with us
now -
> metrication, never ending wars, three political blocs (take
your
> pick),
>
'Newspeak', CCTV cameras everywhere, political correctness .
.
.
> PPS Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean . . .
AARRRGGGHHH!!!!
> --
> To get on or off this list see list information at
>
[4][10][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[11][11][email protected]
2. mailto:[12][12][email protected]
> 3. mailto:[13][13][email protected]
> 4.
[14][14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
--
References
1. [15]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH
2. mailto:[16][email protected]
3. mailto:[17][email protected]
4. mailto:[18][email protected]
5. mailto:[19][email protected]
6. mailto:[20][email protected]
7. mailto:[21][email protected]
8. mailto:[22][email protected]
9. mailto:[23][email protected]
10. [24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. mailto:[25][email protected]
12. mailto:[26][email protected]
13. mailto:[27][email protected]
14. [28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH
2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
4. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
5. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
6. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
7. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
8. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
9. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
12. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
13. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
15. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/21/bse?INTCMP=SRCH
16. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
17. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
18. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
19. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
20. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
21. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
22. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
23. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
25. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
26. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
27. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
28. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
