Dear Anthony,
Another way of achieving gut less likely to fray is by much greater
care in the selection of the unprocessed gut. In particular for trebles
it has been suggested (first I believe by Eph Segerman) that a single
whole gut of near uniform thickness could be used and cut with such
precision that after careful twisting no or minimal 'rectification' is
necessary - thus avoiding breaking of the fibres and leading to early
failure. Of course this would increase the cost of such strings but
then historical records suggest that strings were always very
expensive.
On another matter: I don't understand the comment you report Mimmo as
making - 'Thanks to their high breaking index trebles are less heavily
stressed'. Stress is defined purely as tension/cross-sectional area
and thus trebles will, by definition, be more highly stressed than any
other string. Perhaps his meaning is lost in translation .......
regards
Martyn
--- On Fri, 20/1/12, Anthony Hind <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Anthony Hind <[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: String hairs
To: "William Samson" <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, 20 January, 2012, 14:18
Dear William and All,
I just thought it might be worth resuming for William, the
situation in relation to strong gut trebles, as appeared in
discussions, here, and elsewhere, over the last few years, even though
this goes a little beyond the practical concerns of which William has
spoken, by raising the question (William did not ask) as to whether it
is possible to achieve a string that frays less, and what the effect
might be on the resulting sound.
%
I notice that there may be (at least) two ways of achieving this. The
first would be a chemical treatment of the gut, as appears to have been
done by Mimmo Peruffo, according to his text at lute News 79 Oct 2006
(P14-15); the second would be a careful use of Beef Serosa (according
to Dan Larson, at Gamut).
In both cases, the result would be a stronger string, than using non
treated sheep gut :
1) Mimmo "These (chemically treated) strings feel rather stiff to the
fingertip. Thanks to their rough structure they are less liable to
squashing, and less liable to jam on the nut, or be cut. Thanks to
their high breaking index trebles are less heavily stressed, which
becomes evident, especially through the fact that they stretch less
while tuning (...). In practical terms, less peg turning is needed to
reach the required pitch. Less stretching under stress means a higher
resistance to fraying, which is the main problem of modern strings and
is related to the action of the player's fingers, and perspiration, and
string tension." Lute News 79
(in this expose, Mimmo does not say whether he was using sheep or beef
gut, although his historic hypothesis must surely be that it would have
been applied to sheep gut; although it should evidently be possible to
apply it to beef, resulting in an even stronger string?)
%
2) Dan: " Because beef gut strings are stronger than sheep gut strings
they are a good choice for instruments with a long string length, or
higher tension situations.
In addition to the extra strength, the fiber structure of beef serosa
has less of the fine hairs that sometimes develop on sheep gut
strings."
[1]http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/beef-gut/
%
It would seem that both methods lead to a stiffer treble (which
therefore frays less) and which presumably in each case also result in
a brighter clearer sound:
Dan: "The customer feedback we have received indicate that beef gut
stabilizes more quickly and holds pitch a little better than sheep
gut. The tone has been described as being clearer and brighter than
sheep but of equal gauge."
[2]http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/new-beef-gut-strings.html
Ed says of Dan's beef trebles, "Yes. I love the trebles. They last
much longer, and have a clear, lean, wonderful sound."
[3]http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg26619.html
This is more or less my experience of Mimmo's chemically strengthened
string (although possibly not so lean?), which I think he is also
trying to achieve with his new NG trebles, which are quite bright, but
as Dan W. says comparing this string with gut, "slight loss of slightly
richer gut sound more than compensated by a more open, distinct &
extroverted quality to the overtones (...)"
[4]http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg38490.html
%
Gamut does not of course make the only "strong" beef gut trebles. There
are also testimonies about strong beef trebles by Toro (Italy) sold by
Universale, as those also of Dan W.
[5]http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg26619.html
Universale by Toro: They are not dedicated to lute- they simply make BY
FAR the strongest, most durable treble strings I have ever used - in my
case, a pair of .42 mm (perfectly true and in tune with each other)
that I put on my vihuela (...) Got them in June, and only this past
week is one of them beginning to shred." Dan Winheld
However, Dan goes on to say, "and for sound, those durable trebles are
not quite as sweet as the more delicate strings. No free lunch!"
I imagine that could be true of most strong trebles, depending on the
lute and your playing style, you might like its "clear, lean, wonderful
sound" (as Ed), or feel it is a little less sweet (as Dan does), or
less full, as Jonathan Dunford does, albeit comparing beef ropes and
sheep designed by Corquoz and made by Toro:
[6]http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ViolaDaGamba/message/970
"I've been using them ever since they existed (I had the first
protytpes) and I find them stable and much "fuller" sounding than the
cow gut (for instance Pirastro/Savarez or Kurschner)."JD (although
this could both be rope structure as well as the origin sheep/beef)l
%
Indeed, David v.O. says he prefers the sound of Kathedrale (sheep gut)
to Universale (beef by Toro), presumably for the sweeter sound, even
though he prefers the Toro to synthetics:
[7]http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg26575.html
"I prefer the sound of Kathedrale, also _very_ long lasting, but some
do disagree about here. Universale is _much_ better than nylon, it
sounds like gut, feels like gut, tatstes like ... it is gut!" DvO
%
This is just the result of a rapid search as a reminder of what has
been said over the last few years; and it may be something of a
caricature. I note that no one has suggested that Keurschner top
strings are particularly long lasting, although I believe these are
also beef (and I know at least one gut enthusiast who likes them well
for their sound). It may not be quite as simple as beef = long duration
but slightly lean sound, sheep=shorter duration but warmer sound; of
course the string maker's art goes beyond that.
Also, do Toro and Gamut strings sound alike (I haven't tried either)?
Are all Toro's treble strings made for each specialist seller (Baroco,
La Folia, Universale, Toro) identical, or different? Jonathan Dunford
seems to say that Corquoz does design the one for Baroco. Of course
this brief message is not an attempt at being complete.
Regards
Anthony
________________________________
De : William Samson <[8][email protected]>
A : David Smith <[9][email protected]>
Cc : "[10][email protected]" <[11][email protected]>
Envoye le : Jeudi 19 janvier 2012 9h28
Objet : [LUTE] Re: String hairs
Unless you want to be continually replacing your first string, you
should either drop to a lower pitch standard (even a semitone will
increase the lifespan quite significantly) or if that isn't an
option
(horror of horrors) use a synthetic (e.g. nylgut) string for your
first. There's always the forlorn hope that somebody will start
producing stronger gut, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Maybe one of us knows more than me about the process of giving gut
an
even diameter, but I have heard there are two options, one involving
the abrasion of the 'rough' string, and the other using strings that
have been very carefully hand-made with selected strips and don't
need
grinding of the string's surface to make it even. The latter type
would be stronger, but I wouldn't know where to buy them.
Bill
From: David Smith <[12][email protected]>
To: Lute List <[13][email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2012, 6:25
Subject: [LUTE] String hairs
I have a new lute that has gut strings on it. I have had it for
about
3
days. The 1^st string has unraveled a single "hair" about the 7^th
fret. In the past I have just cut these as short as possible but
frequently the string breaks within a couple of weeks. Is there
any
better way to treat these "hairs"?
I play with no nails and have been very careful so am somewhat
surprised at this happening so quickly. Is this common with gut
strings?
Thanks for any words of wisdom.
Regards
David
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References
1. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/beef-gut/
2. http://gamutmusic.squarespace.com/news/new-beef-gut-strings.html
3. http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg26619.html
4. http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg38490.html
5. http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg26619.html
6. http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ViolaDaGamba/message/970
7. http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg26575.html
8. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
9. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
10. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
11. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
12. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
13. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
