Franz--
List memeber David van Ooijen has some very helpful information on
this topic.
http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
Look under the rubric "writings" on the left side of the page. I think
there is an interactive spreadsheet to do the calculations at the LSA
website.
I personally use 1/6 comma meantone and love the sound. No, not all
keys will be equally in tune (or rather, out of tune), but commonly used
ones will be very good. In general, it seems that raising (toward the
bridge) the odd frets (d, f) and lowering the even ones (c, e) is a good way
to start experimenting. Check fretted notes aginst open strings.
As to your loose frets: if they aren't too terribly loose you might
try a little matchstick wedge under the fret--behind the neck at the bass
side, where your thumb won't bump it.
Good luck, and have fun!
Regards,
Leonard Williams
/[ ]
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On 2/25/12 3:04 PM, "William Samson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Franz,
>
> Looks like nobody else is going to jump in here, so I'm about to do so
> - with both feet . . .
>
> Why do people want to tune their lutes in something other than equal
> temperament? Answer - so they sound better, with no clashing intervals
> leading to rapid beats.
> Does this necessarily involve moving frets around? In my opinion you
> can get a pretty good tuning without necessarily moving your (already
> loose!) frets around.
>
> The important thing is to make sure that the notes that are played in
> the chords of a piece sound good together. The main culprit is the
> major third interval, which, around middle C, beats at about 10 beats
> per second when the tuning is in equal temperament. The solution is to
> flatten the thirds of commonly used chords a fraction, to reduce the
> beat rate. For many pieces of music this can be achieved by playing
> the important chords of that piece and adjusting the tuning so they
> sound right.
>
> Other intervals produce beats, too, in equal temperament, but the major
> third is the most obvious and potentially unpleasant.
>
> The problem with shifting frets around is that although you might get a
> very pure scale in a particular key, intervals in more remote keys can
> sound dreadful. For example, if you pull the fourth fret back towards
> the nut to give a pure major third interval with the fifth fret on the
> second string and fourth fret on the first string, you can play a
> dreadful sounding major third with the fourth fret on the second
> string and the third fret on the first string. Of course this is an
> unlikely chord to find in a piece in vieil ton tuning. All I'm saying
> is that one set of fret placements won't work for all intervals.
>
> More important than temperament in tuning a lute is to make sure the
> two strings of each course agree perfectly and that there are no beats
> when they are plucked together. So pure unisons and octaves are of the
> first importance. Any disagreement leads to an unattractive sound.
>
> Knowing the intricacies of the various kinds of meantone and other
> tunings is not necessary - Just be aware of them and let your ear be
> your guide.
>
> Bill ( ducking behind his desk to avoid the flak . . .)
> From: Franz Mechsner <[email protected]>
> To: lute list <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2012, 12:33
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: free willing frets
> oooops, many apologies - I just realize that there was a discussion
> on
> loosened frets quite recently which I missed due to being busy...
> I'll
> have a look. But my second question still stands.
> Best
> Franz
> __________________________________________________________________
> Von: [1][email protected] im Auftrag von Franz Mechsner
> Gesendet: Sa 25.02.2012 13:13
> An: lute list
> Betreff: [LUTE] free willing frets
> Dear Wisdom,
> My frets are getting loose (late wintertime? too much
> playing?...).
> In
> spite of much care from my part not to touch them they slip
> around
> with
> a dedicated sense of free will during playing, reducing the joy
> of it. So obviously I have some loosening-frets-beginner's
> questions,
> such as: (1) Why might this happen? Is this usual as time goes
> by?
> (2)
> What can one do best to tighten them.
> In connection, I dare to pose an age-old question of mine, which
> is
> also a beginner's question: There has been much discussion in the
> list
> about tuning systems, adjusting the frets according to the tuning
> system and the particular piece at hand etc. It seemed to me that
> lutenists should be familiar with all this and the better of them
> are,
> but things also seemed utterly complicated and practice-demanding
> thus
> I did not get a good start with it. Or to put it more precisely:
> I
> collected quite some stuff from internet, even bought a book but,
> as
> said, it all frigthened me as it looked like so much work.
> Therefore
> my
> question: Is there a primer around for lutenists which allows
> understanding and getting practical as well, i.e., being able to
> set
> the frets etc. according to one's informed best idea how the
> piece
> should sound??? Or is there advice how to proceed best? And: How
> much
> time does one need to invest to acquire this skill at an
> elementary
> workable level?
> Best regards
> Franz
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Franz Mechsner
> Reader
> Northumbria University, Dept. of Psychology
> Northumberland Building
> Newcastle upon Tyne NE1 8ST (UK)
> Tel: +44(0) 191 243 7479
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>
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