Dear Martyn, Sam, Mathias, Bill and all,

Thank you very much for your supportive words. I absolutely agree with what you 
wrote Martyn about Mace. 
Besides it depends how one understands eccentricity. Viewing it from our modern 
world's perspective he could be called by many as a very eccentric man. However 
when trying to imagine the world he was living in and considering his personal 
situation one can reevaluate his image. Not a young man, who worked most of his 
life as a musician, loosing his hearing, who's existence was grossly dependent 
on the income from his pupils. What was he to do? Go to the doctor and ask for 
a hearing aid? No ,existing technology didn't know such a thing. So Mace 
decided to cope with the situation on his own. He invented an instrument that 
united 2 lutes in one, because this construction enabled the biggest resonance 
that could be achieved on a lute. Then, he invents a method of transmitting 
vibrations by touching the dyphone with his teeth. How can one call it? I would 
say that taking into consideration all the circumstances, he was very creative, 
ingenious, and had a very artistic soul. Beeth!
 oven had a similar problem. He was trying to hide the fact that he was deaf, 
and managed to play only by feeling vibration of a grand piano in his body.
Now, obviously when examining historical sources one has to be careful, but it 
is not a good idea to suspect anything a person writes only because he looks or 
sounds strange to us. I don't like theoretical, artificial constructions that 
could undermine credibility of almost any source like this - the same day Mace 
went to the market in order to buy some strings , he had his glasses stained by 
blood from the pork he was preparing for the dinner, therefore he could see 
only rotten red gut etc.
All in all, Musick's Monument is a very valuable historical source for me and I 
will return to this reading in future with pleasure.

All the best

Jaroslaw



Wiadomość napisana przez Martyn Hodgson w dniu 8 paź 2012, o godz. 09:43:

> 
> Dear Jaroslaw,
>  
> I don't think you need be dismayed by Howard Posner's comments: he seems only 
> willing to accept evidence if given under cross examination in his local 
> criminal law court.
>  
> For most of us this degree of scepticism is not necessary and we are prepared 
> to take historical sources at face value unless and until we find compelling 
> reasons to suggest otherwise - indeed, the study of early sources is a 
> cornerstone of historical research. It is not really credible that Mace would 
> have filled this major life's with unsubstantiated personal, and incorrect, 
> opinion: even in 1676 there would have been people around to draw attention 
> to any blatant  inaccuracies.
>  
> In short, I think you're quite right to use Mace as a good source of 
> contemporary English practice.
>  
> MH
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/10/12, Jarosław Lipski <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> From: Jarosław Lipski <[email protected]>
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: the point of synthetics - Rather the movement of the 
> whole lute
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Sunday, 7 October, 2012, 23:52
> 
> Howard,
> 
> No offence I hope? I really wouldn't like to take part in an exchange of 
> arguments that go far from the subjects most of the lute-listers are 
> interested in. However I am forced to answer some of your arguments.
> Firstly, most of the expressions I used were exact quotations of your post. I 
> only added some that were logical consequences of what you wrote, but I am 
> sorry if you didn't mean it.
> Secondly, Mace had built the dyphone. Please read carefully on page 203:
> "The only instrument in being of that kind; and but lately invented, by 
> myself, and MADE WITH MY OWN HANDS, in the year 1672" Then he describes why 
> he had built it and how it sounded etc.
> Thirdly, having an assumption that so many people lack credibility and 
> therefore one can not seriously take into consideration books from the past 
> written by a man who showed some signs of eccentricity is rather not 
> practical IMO as musicology doesn't equal law. We can't call witness Mace.
> And finally, yes the whole discussion began from Benjamin and his 
> observations on behavior of gut strings versus synthetics, but I think he 
> explained recently that he was misunderstood, because he meant that 
> synthetics are in fact more stable, however gut reaches certain, lets call it 
> a state of equilibrium faster. I can confirm this opinion. I play both gut 
> and synthetics. It takes more time for synthetics before they start to behave 
> normally, but then, they do not react to changes of humidity, only 
> temperature. The only thing that I would add to his post is that gut strings 
> don't go out of tune because of high humidity, but because of the changes of 
> humidity. So practically there may be a situation that you kept your lute 2 
> hours before the recital in the place where you are supposed to play, then 
> you enter a stage and it happens that there came quite a lot of people to 
> listen to you (obviously they all breath exhaling a lot of moisture), the 
> hall is not very spacious, a!
 nd!
>   your very carefully prepared tuning goes to pieces. The assumption is 
> though that you have a big audience, ha, ha :). Another thing that I would 
> like to add is that wire wounds in fact go out of tune because they are made 
> of 2 different materials which behave differently - a synthetic core and a 
> wire. The good news is that its movement is very predictable, so once you get 
> used to it, it takes only seconds to correct.
> Hope we safely came into some conclusions.
> 
> Best
> 
> JL
> 
> 
> 
> Wiadomość napisana przez howard posner w dniu 7 paź 2012, o godz. 23:25:
> 
> > On Oct 7, 2012, at 12:14 PM, Jaros“aw Lipski <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 
> >>>> So you see Mace as an oddball, inaccurate observer, someone quick to 
> >>>> jump to odd conclusions, old deaf man who had lost touch with reality, 
> >>>> an idiot who constructed an instrument impossible to play etc
> >>> 
> >>> What I said was: "I'm not inclined to regard Mace as a scientific 
> >>> observer; more like the eccentric uncle who makes dubious sweeping 
> >>> pronouncements at family dinners."
> >>> 
> >> Well, I've quoted your own words, but maybe you had something else on 
> >> mind, sorry∑∑.
> > 
> > No, *I* quoted my own words, which did not include "idiot," "old," "lost 
> > touch with reality," or "etc."  I didn't opine about how quickly he reached 
> > his conclusions (he doesn't strike me as a man who did anything quickly).  
> > I also didn't say "mentally ill."  I certainly didn't say he actually had a 
> > dyphone built, notwithstanding what he wrote.
> > 
> > I spend a lot of time professionally evaluating whether things witnesses 
> > tell me are credible; many are not, for all sorts of reasons, the most 
> > common being triumph of vantage point over all other considerations (just 
> > this morning I read through 18 "character" letters written to convince me 
> > that a person was honorable and honest; none of them mentioned his felony 
> > fraud conviction, leaving me to wonder if the writers even knew why they 
> > were writing).  
> > 
> > We all know the world is full of ostensibly normal and sane persons who 
> > reach positions of prominence and responsibility saying things that are not 
> > credible; in my country they tend to get nominated for public office a lot. 
> >  
> > 
> > Although we seem to have "pivoted," as Mitt Romney might say, into a 
> > discussion of how reliable a witness Mace was, this thread began when 
> > Benjamin Narvey -- a person normally given to reasonable observations and 
> > conclusions -- said he'd had an experience from which he concluded (or 
> > re-concluded) that synthetic strings are harder to keep in tune than gut, 
> > and carbon fiber are particularly difficult.  I think he's extrapolating 
> > too much from too small a sample, and his experience is atypical of most 
> > experiences with synthetics and gut; certainly it's different from mine.  I 
> > think a musicologist of the 23rd century reading Musick's EMail Monument, a 
> > collection of Narvey messages on a hard drive that survived the Great 
> > Warming Catastrophe of 2089, would likely be misled on that particular 
> > point, even though Benjamin is not an "old deaf man who had lost touch with 
> > reality," although he may be one if he's still around in 2089.
> > --
> > 
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > 
> 
> 
> 


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