Names, as we all know, are funny things that shift with time, leading to all kinds of confusion for modern musicians and scholars.
One that struck me recently on a visit to a museum was a card proclaiming that a swan-necked 13c lute was a 'theorbo'. At first I winced, then thought "What the hell, it's still the same instrument", and I'd be surprised if future scholarship doesn't continue to relabel instruments. Having said that, once we've associated a particular instrument with a particular name (at least for some part of its history) we can be more confident in associating it with particular compositions. Bill From: Monica Hall <[email protected]> To: Sean Smith <[email protected]> Cc: Lutelist <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, 1 February 2013, 8:04 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Back to the 4-cours guitar Perhaps - in the end - it doesn't matter what these things were called or what shape they were. Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Smith" <[1][email protected]> To: "lute" <[2][email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:47 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Back to the 4-cours guitar > > Indeed. Morlaye takes his liberties re-serving the likes of Francesco, Borrono and Paladin(o). It may be name value only that got Albert's name attached to those 'guitar' pieces. > > I was plinking through the Vaccaro/deRipa last night and #20 is entirely built upon the the theme of Josquin's Adieu mes amours. What square does that put us on?? > > s > > On Jan 31, 2013, at 2:25 PM, Monica Hall wrote: > > Well - to keep the ball rolling here are a few observations. > It's interesting that you mention the Ripa fantasias - but how do we know > that they were written for the guitar in the first place? A lot of the > 4-course music is arrangements of pre-existing pieces. One of the pieces in > Barberiis is also found in Morlaye's "Second livre". > The repertoires of all these instruments are interchangeable. Some music > from vihuela books is found in later lute sources. > The music itself can be played on any instrument which has the appropriate > number of courses tuned to the appropriate intervals. It wasn't necessarily composed for one instrument rather than another and it tells us nothing > about the identity of the different instruments which were in use at the time. > Back to square one..... > > Monica > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Smith" <[3][email protected]> > To: "lute" <[4][email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 9:11 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: 6c guittar > > >> >> Well, it's hard to say whether the train of this argument has run its >> course or whether it's all gone off the rails now. I still think some sort >> of ren. guitar would be possible in Dalza's Italy and have heard no >> evidence that it couldn't. We may disagree as to the instrument portrayed >> in the intarsia. Personally, I'm unconvinced it is a vihuela, or more to >> the point, unconvinced it is a six-course vihuela. I'm less moved by >> instruments described (or defined) significantly outside Dalza's dates and >> area. There is too much leeway in definitions, too many terms and too few >> descriptions of instruments used in a typical Dalza performance. I believe >> his (and G. Pacaloni's) are only two of very few publications --and may >> include the Castelfranco ms.-- actually written with working bands in mind >> and, as such, allowed a greater variety of possible instruments than those >> listed in titles and notes. And I doubt either cared about Tinctoris' >> definitions. >> >> A strummed C chord on it works fine for the formal Dalza duets (especially >> with a second lute) and there are other dances and intabulations where the >> melody and harmony sit rather nicely to my poor yank ears. I will refrain >> from intabulating motets and writing anything more complex than deRippe >> fantasies for it. (Could his have been written before coming to France? >> Does his Mantouan nature make them, by definition, Italian guitar >> fantasies, albeit published posthumously for a French public? and >> furthermore in a book containing the frottole-era, Scaramela?) I will >> continue to use it in an upcoming performance of frottole (replacing an >> A-lute with a second singer singing bass) as well as proper G and E lutes >> for other pieces. Instrumentation in some ways is like orthography: it is >> a poor imagination indeed that can think of only one way to spell a word. >> >> That said, I do appreciate the time and work by all showing the variety of >> sources and arguments pro- and con- as well as observations on the >> inconclusitivity of the evidence. I'm impressed with the going-to-the-matt >> certainty wherever it developed though such bruisings are hardly necessary >> in the paucity of evidence. I had hoped for more evidence pro- of course >> but I will continue to take the intarsia at its probable (for me) face >> value of a 4-c waisted instrument whatever its title. >> >> I worked with a builder a few years ago to design such a 4-c instrument >> based on the intarsia and we reckon the measurements and ratios will yield >> a pretty instrument. It will probably be the next instrument in my zoo >> when the time is right. >> >> Many thanks to all who weighed in. >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
