Dear Howard,
I note that you now have the reference I sent you about Kuhnau's
request for gallichon being refused by the authorities: would you
kindly pass the information onto the other people you consulted who
also were not aware of this - I thought it common knowledge and I'm
sorry that you were inadvertently misled. But it also emphasises that
there was probably not, as you suggest 'a long tradition of
gallichon-playing in the Leipzig church music Bach supervised.'.
If you read, perhaps with a little more care, what I actually wrote
earlier you'll see that I did not say, as you put it that 'Bach must
have intended the d minor lute because he wrote "lute"'. Indeed I
have been very careful to say that it is all a matter of the weight of
evidence and clearly wrote 'In short, the burden of evidence points to
Bach expecting the (Dm) lute proper in this Passion '.
To repeat, there is no evidence that Bach expected the
gallichon/mandora to be employed in this work. Certainly, as I've also
said, the gallichon was sometimes used by a few other contemporary
composers but there is no evidence of it being 'common' or 'generally'
employed as you assert. As a gallichon player I could but wish
otherwise!
Moreover, perhaps you are not entirely familiar with the
mandora/gallichon family of instrument. The instrument likely to be
esteemed by Kuhnau (and others) as being able to significantly
contribute in large scale works was not the relatively small
gallichon/mandora in nominal D (sometimes in E) used for solo and small
scale chamber music especially in the mid and late 18th century; but
the large continuo gallichon (examples include the Schorn of 1688 and
the Edlinger of 1728) in nominal A (occasionally in B) which, as a
contemporary commented, is but the bass of the (Dm) lute and, indeed,
does go down (NB chromatically) to low ,A as the 13th course of the Dm
lute. This large instrument certainly has a very distinctive tone
(often single strung at high tension) and quite different to the
contemporary (Dm) lute sound; it also has the capability to be heard in
a large ensemble including choral music. It is not possible to play the
Bach Markus Passion obbligato lute part on this instrument.
regards
Martyn
__________________________________________________________________
From: howard posner <[email protected]>
To: Lute Dmth <[email protected]>; lute List
<[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, 22 July 2013, 1:47
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Markus Passion by Bach 2
On Jul 21, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Martyn Hodgson
<[1][email protected]> wrote:
> Well, I suppose it all depends on whether we try to identify and
employ
> the instrument the composer is most likely to have expected to be
> heard.
The question is not "whether" we try to identify the instrument the
composer expected, but HOW we go about identifying it and what evidence
we use. You assert that Bach must have intended the d minor lute
because he wrote "lute" (of course, we don't know WHAT he wrote in the
St. Mark passion, since none of the music survives, but we're all
assuming he wrote "lute" because that's the term he used in other
passions and the Trauerode), and, as you put it, "a few other
contemporary composers (noteably Telemann) wrote church cantatas with a
designated gallichon part." From the evidence of those few composers
you could conclude, I suppose, that no composer would use "lute"
generically, or at least that Bach wouldn't, but you're ignoring
relevant evidence.
If there was a long tradition of gallichon-playing in the Leipzig
church music Bach supervised, you can't rule out gallichon, and you
can't state that there's no evidence for it.
Which is where I came in, and where I'll exit.
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[3]Re: [LUTE] Re: Markus Passion by Bach 2
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+ [5]Martyn Hodgson
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+ [6]howard posner
+ [7]Lute Dmth
Dear Howard,
Donald Gill's important paper in The Lute (Journal of the Lute Society)
Vol XXVI (1986) 'Alternative Lutes: the identity of 18th century
mandoras and gallichons' is one of papers (other than my own) which
describes how Kuhnau's request to the school governors for 'colocion'
was turned down. As an aside, and in response to your recent enquiry,
I've previously speculated that securing a gallichon might also include
engaging the necessary player (much as a modern orchestra might require
a First Horn, say, for a particular work) whether temporarily or as the
permanent post Kuhnau seemed to be requesting.
The assumption that the gallichon was 'in common use' or that it was
used in churches aEUR~generally' as you believe still remains highly
questionable: although that it was in use in some places and for some
purposes is beyond doubt. But this doesn't get us very far either way
in seeing what might be the most likely instrument Bach himself
expected for his Markus Passion (the original question you may recall).
Again we must note that Bach asked for the lute in this work and not
for the gallichon (or cognates) which, as previously pointed out, was a
name commonly used by his contemporaries who actually required this
particular instrument. Of course, the lack of any designation to a part
could conceivably imply any instrument capable of playing a thorough
bass: but this is clearly not the case here where Bach specifically
asks for a lute - so it does matter and ought not to be ignored.
Moreover the part is an obbligato one, not the thorough bass generally
employed by the gallichon.
As already mentioned, as a gallichon player myself, I might wish that
the instrument was indeed more likely in this context - but sadly my
head must rule my heart and favour the (Dm) lute - tho in slightly
arranged part (required, since you ask, to make it playable) to better
suit the instrument's technical demands. In short, there really is no
evidence that Bach expected the gallichon to play this obbligato part -
although, of course, there is some evidence for its use as a thorough
bass instrument by a few other composers.
I'll copy in the full thread so others can follow the discussion
Martyn
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