Dear David, Didn't get your point. As you say, the general public is pretty diverse, ok that's fine. Then, you change the focus to the lack of skill of today's lutenists... What does it mean exactly? We are so bad that we don't deserve to be listened? That's probably why people play the archlute in orquestras, so they cannot be heard? Furthermore, is youtube a reliable performance test? What about those who didn't post videos there, they must be really bad players...
Does the audience know if we have completed the basic training, how could that be? Did the 14 years old girl complete the basic training? Btw, nice video, unfortunately there are milions of kids of this age and even under who can play at this level. Why there are no lutenists playing Vivaldi at such speed... Humm, I need to go back to the basics. Now seriously, how many Universities offer a lute course with the said expected level of proficiency? How long has the lute being around in recent history compared to the piano? Is it a fair comparison? Lute players being regarded as the worst musicians in the early music scene? (I hope North and O'Dette are not listed there otherwise we are doomed). I was unaware of this dowgrading attitude among early musicians (sad I think...). The guitar world also suffered from this (maybe not anymore), I'm pretty sure most of them cannot play the piano, read so many clefs at sight, realize a figured bass at either the keyboard or the guitar, ornament, improvise. I'm not sure not sure Dowland played the piano too, actually his music was dowgraded by some critics, so you see that it is not only our fault. Do we really need all this to deliver a good concert? Maybe some people need... Keep trying and never give up! 2013/8/8 David Tayler <[1][email protected]> I think this is an interesting question, and I will risk posting an honest answer. The answer depends on who is "The General Public". I divide the groups as: the 200 countries of YouTube distribution, Academics, other lute players, people in the Early Music scene, and modern musicians, as these are the groups frequently mentioned here. First off, however, I must note that at a good conservatory or college offering a real music major, you are expected to play the piano, read figured bass and pass a score reading exam using multiple staves of an orchestra work and transposing clefs. I mention this because of the puzzling stories about people who can play the keyboard and transpose and so on. That is an entry level skill, and a requirement. I had to take two years of piano to pass the exam, along with all the other students, and that was to get just a basic BA in music. Hours of piano lab, hours of practice, and everyone had to do it, no exceptions. I had to take an even harder exam to be admitted for the MA, which included a test in Fugue writing and counterpoint. Basic training, basic training for just the BA. However, in many European systems, the requirements are more strict. So although I think it is cool that there are these stories, I think the very fact that we tell these stories sends the message to the General Public that, unfortunately, we didn't finish basic training. And what kind of a message is that? Most professional musicians on the violin, cello, piano, harpsichord, and so on, had to work to get these skills just to get into the Conservatory. They expect everyone to do these things fluently. This explains some of the "attitude" from modern players. Rightly or wrongly, they look at the basic training. And they had teachers who said, in a unified voice "no shortcuts." And that in no way means that the people in the lute stories are not good musicians, because they often are, but think for a moment if you played in any original, historical French baroque opera what you would have to do. You would have to read multiple clefs, including double figured (figures on both sides of the staff) baritone clef with the F on the middle line, and short score the other parts, none of which line up with anything familiar. Way harder than playing the piano. Most harpsichordists and organists who play opera can do this, most lute players cannot do this. Yes, it is harder on the lute. But the musical skills are the same and no harder. As far as the General Population of the Planet, the vast majority have no idea what a lute is, and lute players would be regarded as an historical oddity from movies and TV shows, e.g., cameo appearances of "Game of Thrones" or "House." Followers of Sting would have a very hazy idea that it is the funny looking instrument from Sting's foray into Early Music, but not much more. Certainly the YouTube boom has marginally improved awareness, however, most of the YouTube videos are not intended to be recordings in the sense of a produced recording. There's no one playing the lute on YouTube who can even remotely approach the chops of say for example the 14 year old girl who plays the Vivaldi Four Seasons on the guitar. The GPOTP may not know much, but they know raw talent. [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIGfO2Dgc9Y As far as other lute players, lute players are highly regarded. This means we live in a bubble. As far as other Early Music musicians, sadly, but undeniably, lute players are regarded as the worst musicians. Bottom of the Barrel. That is, there is no other instrument that has a lower reputation, with the possible exception of the Krummhorn. The reason for this is complicated, but basically has to do with anecdotal stories that circulate about lute players in ensembles, basic sight reading, rhythm, score reading, ensemble skills and so on. The situation has changed slightly in the last few years, as more continuo players enter the pool. However, recorder players, cornetto, harpsichord, organ, oboe and viol players nowadays have advanced training, especially in notation and ornamentation, but also in ensemble playing and rhythmic training, that lute players just don't have. Their bar is higher. Other Early Music musicians make constant and disparaging jokes about the quality of the lute YouTube videos. They circulate them in groups as joke emails, especially where two continuo players are playing the same piece but playing different chords. Like major and minor at the same time. It is one of the most common comments I hear in the pub after an orchestra rehearsal. "Did you see this. OMG how could they not know?" What they are saying is not only did they play the mistake, but they are unaware that a mistake has been played. Of course, these same commentators are not making their own solo videos, but still, it is a litany. I think the videos are a great thing, and of course many of them are meant to be sharing, rather than comparing, but there is a PR downside. As far as modern players, when I play with a modern orchestra like the, the reception is normally warm and inviting. I don't get the reaction I got thirty years ago. Orchestra players often have worked with crossover conductors who are active in both worlds. As far as academia, most people in a university environment will have some idea of what a lute is, but not much more than "Game of Thrones". Lute players are smart, talented people. There's no reason that they can't have the same skill sets as the top musicians in the world, just as they did in the renaissance. dt -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Bruno Figueiredo Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao historicamente informada no alaude e teorba. Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro. -- References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIGfO2Dgc9Y 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
