Tristan wrote to me directly without copying the list.  Out of respect to 
whatever his intent may be, I will not forward his personal reply.  I will, 
however, share my own replies to him:

"Yeah, I don't mind looking foolish.  Given the semi-improvisatorial nature of 
Indian classical music, any modern recording of raga to overlay any set 
renaissance composition must be coincidental.  Given humanity's aural 
expectation of resolving to a cadence or nyasa [the Indian version of cadence], 
I would assume a fair number of coincidences between the two would occur.  
Assuming conclusive proof of causation (instead of simple coincidence) without 
supporting documentation strikes me as fallacious.  I am a scientist on the day 
job and my parlance is skepticism."

Thinking more on this, if a modern recording of semi-improvised raga does 
overlay a written renaissance fantasia by virtue of inspiration, that 
inspiration is more likely to have been in the opposite direction of that 

And, regarding why sections might roughly align between raga and renaissance 
fantasia and that the inability to "hear" constitutes my own dwelling in 
"darkness" (the tastiest criticisms are omitted here), this was followed by:

"Coincidence.  Music tends to be organized into 'sections' wherever it's 
occurred.  The expectation of evidence beyond coincidence doesn't feel like 
darkness to me."

To the first note I had appended:

"I would have copied this [reply] to the list, but am not certain why you 
didn't, Tristan.  I suspect it may be to contain a joke, to see how far it can 
be carried among the uninitiated."

I will await the scholarly publication following peer review.

My best wishes are with you all.


-----Original Message-----
From: Braig, Eugene 
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 9:19 AM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: RE: [LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

Aye.  Thank you, gentlemen.


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of 
G. C.
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 5:46 PM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

   I agree with you Arto. The first example is quite amazing in its
   compatibility. Due to a common scale, the forced duet somehow sounds
   compatible. I would say a musical quirk and a coincidence. How could
   Indian music be compatible with Western renaissance. No chance!
   And the other examples are even less impressive, even contradictive.
   Nice try Tristan! :)
   On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Arto Wikla <[1]>

     Well, I listened carefully all those example combinations of Bull's
     harpsichord pieces and the suggested similiar(?) raga performances,
     and sincerely I could not find much in common between them, just two
     different sound clips connected. Tristan von Neumann is of course
     free to name me also "fool" even after I really listened his
     medleys, but while I definitely strongly disagree his idea... ;-)
     all the best,
     On 07/02/18 07:53, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

      > Those who would even want to listen are fools.
     Of course, those who wouldn't.
     Am 07.02.2018 um 06:48 schrieb Tristan von Neumann:

     I can't believe almost no one is excited about this discovery.
     All those who *still* doubt me, listen to this epic Raga Yaman
     accompanied by John Bull's Fantasy XII.
     I did nothing but adjust the pitch and placement of the tracks.
     Those who would even want to listen are fools.
     Like the pope who wouldn't look through Galilei's telescope.
     Those who will listen will hear.
     To get on or off this list see list information at




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