Bream's "Dances of Dowland" LP was the first performance of lute that I heard--back in '69. I was unaware of any of the HIP controversies. Early music in general was making its "debut" with groups like David Munrow's Early Music Consort of London, which I had the pleasure of hearing in my college days. Leonard Williams -----Original Message----- From: Franz Mechsner <franz.mechs...@gmx.de> To: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> Cc: Gary Boye <boy...@appstate.edu>; Edward C. Yong <edward.y...@gmail.com>; Jurgen Frenz <eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com>; Lute List <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wed, Jun 19, 2019 11:50 am Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute Thank you so much, Ron. Apart from my really deep admiration for Bream, I asked a very simple question: How did he get the marvellous sound and colors from a lute with his fingernails? Of course, some of the recordings sound somewhat sharp (though full of life), but some with a sound whose beauty brings me to tears (almost). When I myself try to play my lute with fingernails, the instrument answers with catastrophic screams: "No no, please stop this bad treatment of my delicate personality!". Apart from that all, sound production, colors, fine expression, atmosphere and sentiment on any instrument seems to me the most profound question you can ask about making music, rather than an all too naive stupid question of a beginner who - upon asking such questions - can easily be eaten for breakfeast by the guys 50 years in the profession (or matter, in the case of lute). I actually woke up to the question with a piano teacher who promised to "connect you with the instrument" according to a method developed in the 1920th by a genial piano teacher called Elisabeth Caland. Her emphasis and focus was on back muscles, body centre and the like. Sounds good (I study Feldenkrais), but I wanted to know. I booked lessons with him, which were extremely eye- (or body-) opening. After more than half a year, I could clearliy realize that he has to teach something extremely important, clever and deep (and completely unexpected!) about sound production, but am still struggling how his marvellous sound is finanlly achieved. So the main lesson for me was: sound production is not at all a simple matter, and morover, not at all simple to teach and learn. My strong suspicion is, that there are analogous secrets regarding sound and color on the lute and guitar I never came across. In this connection, I ask: What did Julian Bream find out about it (on lute and guitar) by teaching himself??? My other suspicion, unfortunately fueled by my exciting experience with the mentioned extraordinary piano teacher, is that most musicians - not only pianists, but maybe even lutenists... :-) - have no idea how to achieve the best sound to move their own and other people's souls. Some players may be a natural talents, playing by following their ear, who don't know what they do with their body and instrument (this kind of people say: Julian Bream is good because he is excellent...), but some - and these are interesting for the rest of us - who are able to teach and tell. I am looking for wonderful touching sound, to improve in any way I am able to, pieces don't need to be complicated - is there anybody out there who would be ready to communicate off-list with me on the issue??? Best regards, and I will not disturb you anymore with stupid questions Franz Dr. Franz Mechsner Zum Kirschberg 40 D-14806 Belzig OT Borne +49(0)33841 441362 [1]franz.mechs...@gmx.de Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Juni 2019 um 17:09 Uhr Von: "Ron Andrico" <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com> An: "Gary Boye" <[3]boy...@appstate.edu>, "Edward C. Yong" <[4]edward.y...@gmail.com> Cc: "Jurgen Frenz" <[5]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com>, "Lute List" <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute I feel I must add a word of support for Julian Bream and his many contributions to the current lute revival. As a 20th-century pioneering concert artist, Julian Bream first and foremost raised the lute from a quaint closet instrument, best suited to historians and eccentrics, to an instrument capable of musical expression that reached and communicated to modern audiences. Yes, Julian Bream developed and employed his own characteristic technique. And yes, he used instruments that were modified from historical models to suit his needs as a touring concert artist. But it was through his musical chops that he exposed a broad audience to the depth and the possibilities of old music for the lute. Bream-bashing has been a popular sport among modern players who like to dwell on what is now considered proper lute technique, but many of these players for all intents and purposes dwell in glass houses. For instance, I still see an absurd number of modern players (who really should know better) using thumb-under technique on baroque lute and theorbo. This is patently unhistorical. In fact, it is well known that music from circa 1600 onward should be played with the thumb out. While the lute world is populated by an abundance of opinionated hobbyists, Julian Bream is a real musician, and probably still has chops most lute players will never attain. Let's give the man the respect he deserves. RA __________________________________________________________________ From: [7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Gary Boye <[9]boy...@appstate.edu> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:23 AM To: Edward C. Yong Cc: Jurgen Frenz; Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute Edward, Back in the '70s, there was a quip that "Julian Bream makes the lute sound like a guitar and the guitar sound like a lute." I think that came from guitarists who had no idea what the lute could sound like. He was pretty amazing in concert (on guitar, I didn't see him play lute), and quite a character off stage. In addition to "lute," he also played "vihuela" and "Baroque guitar" (quotes used intentionally!) . . . Can't say I'd recommend his early music recordings to students today though.. Gary On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 5:39 AM Edward C. Yong <[1][10]edward.y...@gmail.com> wrote: I have to agree. JB used his stardom to get the lute out there, even if it was a Frankenlute with nothing lute about it apart from the shape. Would anyone have paid attention to his lute playing if it hadn't ridden on the back of his guitarist reputation? Probably not. I recognise that many here were introduced to the lute via JB's efforts, but my own experience was rather different. My first exposure to lute music was an LP of Julian Bream playing Dowland in my school library, and that put me off the lute - it sounded like a classical guitar to me, so at 12, I didn't see the point. It wasn't until a year later that I heard Paul O'Dette and Jakob Lindberg's cd of Elizabethan lute duets and that changed my mind entirely - I wanted to play an instrument that sounded like theirs. While I have much respect for JB being a musician on the guitar and an 'early adopter', I fear I find his tone on the lute to be thin and hard, or à ¢metallic sharp' as Mr Frenz calls it. It's difficult for me to look past the tone and appreciate JB's musicianship on the lutewhen I find the tone unattractive - and this is my failing, not JB's. Edward > On 19 Jun 2019, at 12:40 PM, Jurgen Frenz <[2][11]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote: > > Julian Bream was a vital part (I believe) of the lute revival 50 years ago by making the music public. On the downside of it he played guitar technique on it to the point of using singe strings on both the high G and D courses - it allowed him to play apoyando on the lute which is a big no-no. Hence his lute playing doesn't really sound like a lute. Also, at that time, it was common guitar technique to use sound differences to emphasize or mark formal sections by moving the right hand extremely close to the bridge, which creates a very metallic sharp sound. This has fallen out of favor on the guitar as well, I personally would qualify it as obnoxious, even more so on the lute. > If you like it, you may listen to Konrad Ragossnigs lute recordings, he sounds very much like Bream did. > > Best > Jurgen > > > ---------------------------------- > "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there." > > JalÃâl ad-DÃâà «n Muhammad Rumi > > à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢ Original Message à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢à ¢ > On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 6:13 AM, Franz Mechsner <[3][12]franz.mechs...@gmx.de> wrote: > >> Dear Dan, >> >> Julian Bream actually pioneered lute playing very early. Watch >> this beautiful movie on him that makes me smile (lute things come >> somewhere in the >> middle): [1][4][1][13]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI >> >> Warm regards and best >> Franz >> >> Dr. Franz Mechsner >> Zum Kirschberg 40 >> D-14806 Belzig OT Borne >> +49(0)33841 441362 >> [5][14]franz.mechs...@gmx.de >> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Juni 2019 um 01:07 Uhr >> Von: "Dan Winheld" [6][15]dwinh...@lmi.net >> An: "Franz Mechsner" [7][16]franz.mechs...@gmx.de, [8][17]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >> Betreff: Re: [LUTE] Julian Bream on Lute >> Nope. Never heard of him. >> On 6/18/2019 3:49 PM, Franz Mechsner wrote: >> >>> Dear collective wisdom, >> >>> >> >>> I just heard some pieces played by admired guitarist Julian Bram on >> >> the >> >>> lute. It seems to me he played kind of classical guitar style on the >> >>> lute. Strange, but It sounds wonderful to me, not only bold for the >> >>> time. Does anyone understand how he played the (maybe special) lute >> >> and >> >>> produced the wonderful sound on a lute admittedly built for him? >> >>> >> >>> Best and curious >> >>> Franz >> >>> >> >>> Dr. Franz Mechsner >> >>> Zum Kirschberg 40 >> >>> D-14806 Belzig OT Borne >> >>> +49(0)33841 441362 >> >>> [9][18]franz.mechs...@gmx.de >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >> >>> [2][10][2][19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >>> >> >> References >> >> 1. [11][3][20]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI >> 2. [12][4][21]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- Dr. Gary R. Boye Erneston Music Library Appalachian State University -- References 1. [1]mailto:[22]edward.y...@gmail.com 2. [2]mailto:[23]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 3. [3]mailto:[24]franz.mechs...@gmx.de 4. [4][5][25]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 5. [5]mailto:[26]franz.mechs...@gmx.de 6. [6]mailto:[27]dwinh...@lmi.net 7. [7]mailto:[28]franz.mechs...@gmx.de 8. [8]mailto:[29]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. [9]mailto:[30]franz.mechs...@gmx.de 10. [10][6][31]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. [11][7][32]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 12. [12][8][33]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Virus-free. [13][9]www.avast.com -- References Visible links: 1. mailto:[34]edward.y...@gmail.com 2. mailto:[35]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 3. mailto:[36]franz.mechs...@gmx.de 4. [10][37]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 5. mailto:[38]franz.mechs...@gmx.de 6. mailto:[39]dwinh...@lmi.net 7. mailto:[40]franz.mechs...@gmx.de 8. mailto:[41]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:[42]franz.mechs...@gmx.de 10. [11][43]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 11. [12][44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 12. [13][45]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 13.
[14][46]https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=lin k&ut m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link Hidden links: 15. [15][47]https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=lin k&ut m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon 16. file://localhost/net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L28660-816TMP.html#DAB4FAD8-2DD 7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2 References 1. [48]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 2. [49]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. [50]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 4. [51]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. [52]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 6. [53]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. [54]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 8. [55]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. [56]http://www.avast.com/ 10. [57]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 11. [58]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 12. [59]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 13. [60]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 14. [61]https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link 15. [62]https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon -- References 1. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 2. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com 3. mailto:boy...@appstate.edu 4. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com 5. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. mailto:boy...@appstate.edu 10. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com 11. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 12. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 13. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 14. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 15. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 16. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 17. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 18. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 20. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 21. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 22. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com 23. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 24. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 25. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 26. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 27. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 28. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 29. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 30. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 31. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 32. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 33. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 34. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com 35. mailto:eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com 36. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 37. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 38. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 39. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net 40. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 41. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 42. mailto:franz.mechs...@gmx.de 43. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 44. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 45. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 46. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut 47. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&ut 48. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 49. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 50. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 51. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 52. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 53. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 54. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 55. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 56. http://www.avast.com/ 57. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 58. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 59. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUdunh_wMCI 60. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 61. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link 62. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon