It is very nice, on the contrary.
-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: [email protected]
Data: 21/07/19 19:37 (GMT+01:00)
A: Lex van Sante <[email protected]>
Cc: lute mailing list list <[email protected]>
Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: Re:
It is equally hideous on harpsichord-
[1]https://youtu.be/0z7nW2jRA7g
====
[2]http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
On Jul 21, 2019, at 12:40 PM, Lex van Sante <[3][email protected]>
wrote:
Anyone can hear that this organ is not in tune.
Whatever the temperament the octaves should be pure.
I agree with Roman that this sounds horrible but this has nothing to
do
with the temperament.
Cheers,
Lex
Op 21 jul. 2019, om 17:59 heeft [4][email protected] het
volgende
geschreven:
This is a piece by Tarquinio Merula in MT,
Anything but beautiful-
[1][5]https://youtu.be/dyzYjyp8zCw
====
[2][6]http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
On Jul 21, 2019, at 11:34 AM, David van Ooijen
<[3][7][email protected]> wrote:
The beauty of MT is that each key has it's own character. I've
played
l'Orfeo 30 times. 30 Times in MT. I've lost count of the times
I've
played Monteverdi's Maria Vespers (over one hundred times,
anyway)
all
in MT.
David
On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 17:21, <[1][4][8][email protected]>
wrote:
So - I took a quick look: l'Orfeo starts in C and goes
through
a,
d,
F, g, G, Bb, c and even f.
A separate theorbo for each key change, I suppose!))
RT
====
[2][5][9]http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
On Jul 21, 2019, at 8:49 AM, [3][6][10][email protected]
wrote:
Out of curiosity:
There should be estimates around of how many keys say a
Monteverdi
opera goes through.
I am pretty sure Claudio didn't worry about the fretted guys
temperaments, did he?
unless they had a different axe per movement.
RT
====
[4][7][11]http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
On Jul 21, 2019, at 6:16 AM, tribioli
<[5][8][12][email protected]> wrote:
I know only one thing: for me 1/6 comma practically works. No
slanted
frets nor tastini. I don't bear anymore to play early
Renaissance music
in equal temperament which on the other hand I use on all the
later
music as it allows to play in other keys than the "standard"
Renaissance keys.
I think there were not so many rules in the past. Galilei
advocates
against tastini, so there were people using them and meantone
temperament. How many we don't know. Piccinini advocates
playing with
nails, others say not. Besard says to stretch the thumb out,
some
others say to do so if your hand allows it (for instance, I
have a
short thumb, one falanx shorter than usual). In any case,
Besard (if I
remember correctly) blames those who play shaking their hand,
so there
were some musicians that still played thumb under at his time.
How many
we don't know. Lately, some, many?, people played with the
pinky very
close or behind the bridge, so they probably had lower string
tensions,
which is probably good for instruments with many strings, and
a
completely different sound of what now people think is nice.
Even our
instruments are biased by our ideal, sweet, sound, which BTW
is
different from what was considered a good sound thirty years
ago, but
if one reproduces exactly the thickness and bar dimensions of
the
surviving boards, the sound that comes out is much brighter.
Ok, it
depends on the board stiffness too, but that's it.
It is a modern, romantic, idea that everything in music must
be
written, the thecnique must be absolutely that etc. The old
masters,
simply did what they liked more and worked better for them, of
course
to the degree the instrument allowed. They wrote their own
music or
freely adapted what was composed by others, simplifying or
adding
diminutions as they thought was fit and their thecnique
allowed. As in
the case of the lute there is no continuity because no one
have
played
it for a couple of centuries, we can only guess and try to
stay
close
to what they "probably" did. If we like to do so, because at
the end no
one wrote a law so the lutenists have to play only old music!
Freedom
(in art, at least)!
Happy plucking
-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Matthew Daillie <[6][9][13][email protected]>
Data: 21/07/19 11:23 (GMT+01:00)
A: "[7][10][14][email protected] list"
<[8][11][15][email protected]>
Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: Wishful thinking on lute temparaments was
Re: Lute
Temperaments
OK, I stand corrected, you know best. Have a nice day.
Matthew
Le 21 juil. 2019 �� 11:15, Martyn Hodgson
<[9][12][16][email protected]> a �� ���crit :
Dear Matthew,
Thank you for his - though I really do not know why you suggest
a
'slanging match'!. My intention is merely to put some
historical
and
practical perspective on the matter rather than simple personal
assertion. To repeat: you are making the common mistake of
discussing
theoretical temperaments (mainly, in practice, only
employable
on
keyboard instruments) with practical temperaments appropriate
for
fretted instruments such as the lute.
Whether or not some modern players might adopt this manner
('meantone')
of fretting is not, of course, the point - perhaps they might
themselves engage in a degree of wishful thinking. Certainly,
modern
fashions come and go as fast as fads, and in other areas of
lute
performance practice some modern players (even a few
professionals
who
might be expected to know better) still insist on, for example,
employing thumb-under for repertoire other than the sixteenth
century.
In short, such anecdotal reports, even from 'professionals, are
not
reliable evidence of historic practice.
regards
MH
To get on or off this list see list information at
[10][13][17]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.ht
ml
--
*******************************
David van Ooijen
[11][14][18][email protected]
[12][15][19]www.davidvanooijen.nl
*******************************
--
References
1. [16][20]mailto:[email protected]
2. [17][21]http://turovsky.org/
3. [18][22]mailto:[email protected]
4. [19][23]http://turovsky.org/
5. [20][24]mailto:[email protected]
6. [21][25]mailto:[email protected]
7. [22][26]mailto:[email protected]
8. [23][27]mailto:[email protected]
9. [24][28]mailto:[email protected]
10.
[25][29]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. [26][30]mailto:[email protected]
12. [27][31]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
--
References
1. [32]https://youtu.be/dyzYjyp8zCw
2. [33]http://turovsky.org/
3. [34]mailto:[email protected]
4. [35]mailto:[email protected]
5. [36]http://turovsky.org/
6. [37]mailto:[email protected]
7. [38]http://turovsky.org/
8. [39]mailto:[email protected]
9. [40]mailto:[email protected]
10. [41]mailto:[email protected]
11. [42]mailto:[email protected]
12. [43]mailto:[email protected]
13. [44]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
14. [45]mailto:[email protected]
15. [46]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
16. [47]mailto:[email protected]
17. [48]http://turovsky.org/
18. [49]mailto:[email protected]
19. [50]http://turovsky.org/
20. [51]mailto:[email protected]
21. [52]mailto:[email protected]
22. [53]mailto:[email protected]
23. [54]mailto:[email protected]
24. [55]mailto:[email protected]
25. [56]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
26. [57]mailto:[email protected]
27. [58]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
--
--
References
1. https://youtu.be/0z7nW2jRA7g
2. http://turovsky.org/
3. mailto:[email protected]
4. mailto:[email protected]
5. https://youtu.be/dyzYjyp8zCw
6. http://turovsky.org/
7. mailto:[email protected]
8. mailto:[email protected]
9. http://turovsky.org/
10. mailto:[email protected]
11. http://turovsky.org/
12. mailto:[email protected]
13. mailto:[email protected]
14. mailto:[email protected]
15. mailto:[email protected]
16. mailto:[email protected]
17. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
18. mailto:[email protected]
19. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
20. mailto:[email protected]
21. http://turovsky.org/
22. mailto:[email protected]
23. http://turovsky.org/
24. mailto:[email protected]
25. mailto:[email protected]
26. mailto:[email protected]
27. mailto:[email protected]
28. mailto:[email protected]
29. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
30. mailto:[email protected]
31. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
32. https://youtu.be/dyzYjyp8zCw
33. http://turovsky.org/
34. mailto:[email protected]
35. mailto:[email protected]
36. http://turovsky.org/
37. mailto:[email protected]
38. http://turovsky.org/
39. mailto:[email protected]
40. mailto:[email protected]
41. mailto:[email protected]
42. mailto:[email protected]
43. mailto:[email protected]
44. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
45. mailto:[email protected]
46. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
47. mailto:[email protected]
48. http://turovsky.org/
49. mailto:[email protected]
50. http://turovsky.org/
51. mailto:[email protected]
52. mailto:[email protected]
53. mailto:[email protected]
54. mailto:[email protected]
55. mailto:[email protected]
56. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
57. mailto:[email protected]
58. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
