For Condes Claros, look also at these Guitar books:
https://www.guitareclassiquedelcamp.com/partitions/facsimile.html
The versions there are easier to play, they also work on Ukulele.
Not really folksy, more like simpler versions of the complicated
artistic variations from Valderrabano.
On 10.01.20 16:26, Ron Andrico wrote:
Dear Stewart:
Not knowing exactly what you are aiming for, you can do no better than
the Conde claros variations in the Marsh ms., p. 232, for a folksy
character, although the character is decidedly English rather than
Spanish.
RA
__________________________________________________________________
From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Stewart McCoy
<lu...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 1:11 PM
To: Lute Net <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Milan's name - Postludium to the CODA
Dear Antonio,
I have been searching my house high and low for my photocopy of
Barberiis'
_Libro Decimo_. It must be here somewhere, but I just can't find it.
However, help is at hand at Sarge Gerbode's lute site. If you search
there
under "facsimiles", you will find a copy of Barberiis' book:
[1]http://www.gerbode.net/facsimiles/Barberiis_intabolatura_di_lauto_v1
0_1549/hh1v.png
. The type face for the guitar music looks to me the same as for the
lute
music. It is interesting that the top line is marked "canto",
presumably to
clarify that this line represents the first course (highest in pitch),
unlike all the lute music earlier in the book. By the way, although
each of
the guitar pieces has the title "Fantasia", they are really more modest
in
character. I would be very interested to know what the music is.
There is a facsimile copy of Salinas' book at the IMSLP site. Please
could
you tell me which page he gives the tenor of Conde Claros. (I find the
Latin
heavy going.) Where possible I would like to link Spanish romances such
as
Conde Claros to simple melodies, to be able to create a more folky
performance (unaccompanied, or with simple chords strummed on the
guitar)
than the sophisticated arrangements for voice and vihuela which survive
in
the vihuela books.
Best wishes,
Stewart.
-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Corona
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 10:58 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Milan's name - Postludium to the CODA
Dear Stewart
What a pleasant surprise! I'm ever so glad to hear from you. Thank you
very
much for the information - I stand corrected, and happy to do so,
Is it in the same type as the lute music? Sounds very intriguing.
Best wishes,
Antonio
On Friday, 10 January 2020, 04:38:13 GMT-6, Stewart McCoy
<lu...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
Dear Antonio,
A pleasure to make contact with you via this thread.
Strictly speaking there is another example of Milan's tablature, albeit
for
guitar, in Melchiore de Barberiis, _Libro Decimo_ (Venice: Hieronymus
Scotum, 1549). Most of the book contains music for the lute in Italian
lute
tablature, but at the end of the book are four short pieces for the
4-course
guitar. The tablature for the guitar music is the same as Luys Milan's.
Best wishes,
Stewart McCoy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Corona
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 2:35 AM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Milan's name - Postludium to the CODA
Dear G. C.
As I stated before, it would be foolish to deny that Milán was
influenced by
Italian culture; what I do not find is evidence of any possible
influence by
the Italian lutenists before him. I, for one, would welcome any
information
about it, but I'm still waiting to be enlightened. As far as I know,
with
the exception of Dalza's, pavans "alla venetiana" and "alla ferrarese"
which
are quite different from Milan's, there is no Italian lute source of
pavans
before 1536 (Attaingnant does have some, but so far nobody here has
proposed
a French influence). An interesting point would be that, according to
Milán,
his pavans resemble those played in Italy (parecen en su ayre y
compostura a
las mesmas pauanas que en Ytalia se tañen). Valid questions would then
be:
what were his sources? Manuscripts? Did he listen to them? I have to
admit
this is a big lacuna in our knowledge of the matter, but so far we do
not
have any satisfactory answers: speculation may contribute to our peace
of!
mind, but not to our knowledge.
Valencian tablature should be called, in fact, Milan's tablature: there
are
no other examples of it. To me this is another proof of Milán's unique
condition (an interesting antecedent would be the Marineo Siculo
fragment
but that is, too, one of a kind). It could nevertheless be argued that
Milán
used rhytmic flags above each cipher, as can be found in Petrucci's
previous
publications (and unlike Casteliono in 1536 and later vihuelists), but
that
is all I can find in common.
Since I am not Spanish, I feel I can hardly be found guilty of
championing
any issue of honour or ownership; I just try to judge from what
available
evidence can tell us and form my own criteria from it. I don't care
where I
step as long as there is a sound basis to justify where I place my
feet.
Best wishes
Antonio
P.S. What does "italianate music in a general sense" mean in the
context of
Milán´s pieces?
On Thursday, 9 January 2020, 15:23:56 GMT-6, G. C. <kalei...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I meant to say: "An improvement to neapolitan tab" (Which was in
Valencian hands at the time)
(Also only one remaining ms. and de Milano at that!) It's fascinating
to think of what influences were at work there.)
G.
On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 8:23 PM G. C. <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:
Pavanas in italian style, songs in italian, italianate music
in
a
general sense, etc. etc. I don't understand this tip-toeing
around
the fact that Milan was heavily influenced by Italian art and
(lutenist) culture, as many were around this time. And also
his
surname, which I cannot see has satisfyingly been explained
yet. Not
to speak about the fascinating Valencian tablature, an
improvement
(in my view) to italian tab which just didn't catch on.
Are we afraid of steping on some misguided Spanish sense of
honour and
ownership for one of the early vihuelists here?
Just intrigued
G.
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