The message below from Charles McCathieNevile
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was forwarded by the list
moderator.
>Charles Opperman is right on the money as I see it. As to Dave's original
>request for database-backed software to ensure that there is alternative
>text, it is a requirement covered by several different checkpoints in the
>Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines, so getting increased conformance to
>those will hopefully improve matters considerably.
>
>Cheers
>
>Charles McCathieNevile
>
>On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Charles Oppermann wrote:
>
> The item you're referring to is a image representing a button with words
> "Post a comment" in the graphic.
>
> It's some god-awful HTML. I don't blame the authors for having long
> URLs - that's necessary for this kind of stuff with the current
> technology, but not having a ALT attribute is the first mistake. I'd
> also like to see a TITLE attribute on the <A> element - not as a
> substitute for the ALT though.
>
> So, in psuedo-code...
>
> <A TITLE="Add your own comments on this story" HREF=....>
> <IMG ALT="Post a comment">
> </A>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lloyd G. Rasmussen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 1:26 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: FW: Re[2]: Database-driven Web pages
>
>
> I want to comment on the second issue, long URLs generated by automated
> software.
>
> I find Cnet News <news.cnet.com> to be quite usable with Window-Eyes
> and
> Lynx. But they have a feature whereby you can read and comment on
> messages
> submitted by readers of the current article. Most of its output is just
> fine, except for one button which allows you to submit a comment, which
> has
> no title or alt. In the article at
>
> http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-3310477.html?tag=st.ne.1002.lthd.10
> 05-2
> 00-3310477
> about Congress wanting to crack down on hackers, the offending link in
> the
> "message boards" section of this story reads
> <a
> href="/news/reviewentry/1,10799,0-1005-602-3310477,00.html?tag=st.ne.ni.
> ucwy
> tnav.wytfm"><img src="/Images/News/Graphics/UserReviews/button_21.gif"
> width="78" height="34" align="right" border="0"></a>
> in which Window-Eyes reads the unintelligible URL
> news/reviewentry/1,10799,0-1005-602-3310477,00.html?tag=st.ne.ni.ucwytna
> v.wy
> tfm
> and Lynx instead parses the name of the image and provides
> [button_21] as the name of the link. If this image had an alt or a
> title,
> both programs would use it. I never until now tried to find out where
> this
> link takes you, but using Window-Eyes to read the long URL in the midst
> of
> intelligible text is disruptive enough that I sometimes stop the
> automatic
> reading of the story, skip that line, then resume the read-to-end
> function.
>
>
> Databases should produce alt or title attributes for all clickable
> images,
> period. It would be even better if they meant something in the current
> context.
>
> At 12:21 PM 10/27/00 -0400, you wrote:
> >If anyone has any thoughts/comments regarding the below messages,
> please
> >send them along.
> >
> >Don Barrett
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: MARC FINK [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 11:35 AM
> >To: Don_Barrett; pat.sheehan; Paul_Schafer; Bruce_Bailey;
> >shelia_hamblin; Michele_Zozom; Elaine_Goheen; Ron_Luycx
> >Cc: Gerald_Malitz
> >Subject: Re[2]: Database-driven Web pages
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Don,
> >
> > I'm especially interested in what approaches folks have used to
> solve
> > the following challenges:
> >
> > 1. When generating a linearized table dynamically, what have you
> found
> > to be a useful method for generating cell coordinates--in other
> words,
> > how do you get the column and row headers associated with each
> cell
> > member? Judging from Don's comments below, perhaps it would be
> > possible to pass a row header variable to each cell in addition to
> the
> > column header.
> >
> > 2. What work-around has anyone found for dealing with session and
> > variable ID's which are passed from one page to the next in Web
> > applications like e-commerce shopping carts? As you know, these
> can be
> > very long strings which convey little meaning to screen readers.
> >
> > These are sticky technical issues, but I see them as unavoidable
> > considering how important database-driven Web content is. This is
> > especially true when building pages that serve a search/query
> function
> > to access large data/information resources in an efficient and
> > meaningful way.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Marc Fink
> >
> >
> >______________________________ Reply Separator
> >_________________________________
> >Subject: RE: Database-driven Web pages
> >Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] at INTERNET
> >Date: 10/27/00 8:41 AM
> >
> >
> >I am forwarding this message to a number of individuals on our team and
> on
> >the Web Development team in the hopes that we can garner some
> additional
> >interest/information on the problems raised in Mark's message below.
> If
> >anyone has any thoughts on how we might proceed in framing this
> discussion,
> >please share your thoughts.
> >
> >For example, here at Education, we have had a high degree of success
> with
> >Cold Fusion, in that the resulting interface is HTML, and all query and
> >script strings are handled without interfering with the interface. We
> did
> >have a few applications which involved the use of complex tables which
> >needed column header identifiers to be read along with cell contents by
> the
> >screen reader in order to make the table intelligible. This was
> handled by
> >the contractor by modifying the template so that header information
> would be
> >dynamically generated in the table in each cell. However, this
> solution is
> >not documented as far as I know, and it should be so others facing the
> same
> >problem can rely on this experience for an easy solution.
> >
> >Thoughts?
> >
> >Don
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: MARC FINK [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 5:31 PM
> >To: Don_Barrett; pat.sheehan
> >Subject: Database-driven Web pages
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Pat:
> >
> > I recently had the pleasure of meeting and talking with you at the
> > IDEAS 2000 conference. (I work with the 508 team at the United
> States
> > Postal Service.) I talked with you specifically about
> > database-generated Web pages and other interactive pages such as
> form
> > elements and links which are query strings. We agreed that these
> are
> > areas of great concern but have not really been dealt with
> in-depth in
> > the present guidelines.
> >
> > At the time I offered to pursue this issue further with you. Don
> > Barrett, who works periodically here at Postal Headquarters,
> expressed
> > a similar interest in studying this area in more detail.
> >
> > One goal of our mutual collaboration could be to share knowledge
> of
> > different and successful approaches we know of--hopefully saving
> > everyone time and money in the long run.
> >
> > Let me know what you think, and thank you for your time.
> >
> > Marc Fink
> > Web Project Manager
> > 508 Team
> > USPS/LittonPRC
> > 202 268-4716
> >
> >
> Braille is the digital divide.
> Lloyd Rasmussen, Senior Staff Engineer
> National Library Service f/t Blind and Physically Handicapped
> Library of Congress (202) 707-0535 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <http://www.loc.gov/nls>
> HOME: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://lras.home.sprynet.com>
>
>
>
>--
>Charles McCathieNevile mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: +61 (0) 409 134 136
>W3C Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/WAI
>Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053, Australia
>September - November 2000:
>W3C INRIA, 2004 Route des Lucioles, BP 93, 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex,
>France
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