On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 10:03:44AM +0100, Asger K. Alstrup Nielsen wrote:
> > 1) Perl is much more widespread than python, and even more so compared to
> > guile and other languages that the non-computer science folks among us have
> > never heard of. (I've heard of SWIG, and I agree that it would be *really*
> > cool, but it sounds like it's not ready yet. Maybe for 1.2?)
>
> Agreed, but it's not known by more people that use LyX. I think that
> the number of LyX users that know perl is maybe 2%. Python might be
> 1%.
I just meant it was more likely to be installed, actually.
> > 2) reLyX requires Perl, so configure is already checking for it.
>
> There is a difference: We need to link to a Perl library, which
> might be much more difficult. The Python example showed this.
Um, OK. This is above my head. Sounds like maybe Python and perl would be
equally difficult in this case?
> > 4) Perl is easy.
>
> I don't agree with this. It's easy for hackers and nerds. It's not
> easy for your mom.
>
> It's harder because it's arbitrary.
>
> It's the same with Perl: If you know the reasons, the philosophy and
> the histroy about Perl, it's natural to use the type-prefixes. If you
> don't, they are hard.
>
> IMO.
Sigh. Well, after looking at Etienne's example (which is pretty neat) I'm
starting to agree with you. While I think that my mom would have no trouble
learning to put $ in front of every variable (she's a smart lady!) there's
just too much more stuff there. From Etienne's example, you need to know the
syntax of the open command, regexps, filehandles... it's just too much.
> I would like a poll to understand which target audience we are aiming for:
>
> Is it the nerds or the ordinary users?
>
I haven't thought about scripting that much, but as I said before, I was
imagining that its purpose was for ordinary users. (Obviously, we want
something powerful enough that hackers will make use of it too.) And the only
comparable "scripting" that I've seen is the command language in xmgr (aka
grace). It has a very simple syntax, so that the whole language can fit on one
(long) html page in the docs.
Unfortunately, Perl could never work like that. It seems to me that Python is
also too complicated. Although I don't know python, it can obviously do a LOT.
And any language that can do a lot automatically becomes non-trivial to learn.
I think. Python may not require braces in an if statement, but I'm still not
convinced that my mom would take the time to learn it.
So I guess we'll need to make a compromies of sorts. Either we create a new
language which is *very* simple, in which case we'll be annoyed because we
can't do fancy things, plus we have to invent a new language, or we use a more
complicated language in which case ordinary users won't be able to use it.
(Sure, we could make templates for them to play with, but that's very
limiting.) In the latter case, I would still vote for Perl. My reassons
still apply, and if we are using a hard language, why not use Perl?
I don't think that the difference in hardness between Perl and Python would
increase the number of users who do scripting substantally. But I could be
wrong, in which case I guess I'll have to go download Python 1.5...
-Amir
