Le 06/03/2018 à 14:44, Uwe Stöhr a écrit :
Here is my last attempt to explain the situation. Then I will be quiet because I already invested now about 20 hours in nothing else than this.

The goal is definitely not that you become quiet, which would mean "This is my last word. Either you accept my solution or you have no windows installer".

Here are the principal use cases for LyX users:

A: I am a happy user of LyX 2.2.x and are not interested to upgrade anything. If I get now a document from a colleague containing a LaTeX package I don't have yet installed, MiKTeX detects it when you compile the document. To be able to install the missing package, it needs to update its package handling system.

What if the user set "Install missing packages on the fly: never"? Do you still insist that this user should have to do a double update that was explicitly opted-out?

As I understand it, the installer sets installation of packages to "automatic" by default (it is _not_ the miktex default), but does respect the setting "no" that the user may have set.

It should be at least possible not to do any update if the user explicitly said "no" to updates.

What is not clear to me is why we change the default update mechanism. Miktex documentation explicitly recommends to use the Miktex Console to get updates, and does not set the update mechanism to automatic.

Reality is not what we wish. LyX users want to get an output of the documents. To get this, third-party programs are necessary like ImageMagick, Python, LaTeX, Ghostscript etc. If a third-party program has a bug, LyX users don't get an output.

This is why we should not change a system that works, in case it breaks the program. If my TeX installation breaks when upgrading to the new Ubuntu Clunky Coyote, I can accept that. I am prepared to it because I am updating my system.

If TeX breaks because I am typesetting a document, then it is happening at the worst possible time. I _do_ need LyX not to break at this particular time.

At last a personal statement: I read in the discussions from time to time that some are not familiar with Windows but nevertheless they state what is right or wrong in their opinion. That is no base for a discussion.

I started with Windows 2.0, then 3.0, 3.1, etc. up to windows 10 (OK, I skipped a few). These days I use windows 7 and windows 10 on a daily/weekly basis. Do I qualify?

Either invest time to try it out on Windows on your own or trust me and the MiKTeX developer. I have other things to do on a sunny day than to sit at home like a nerd with 3 different PCs to test different installations, update states etc. to find a solution.

I understand how frustrating the thing can be. But working alone on this is probably the source of many issues. It is never good to have an own niche where only one voice counts. We are a team, and this is where our strength comes from.

I also miss the view on what users need the most: a LyX that just works with all its features. They don't want to learn what a package is, how it is handled, what the cryptic package names like "marvosym" stand for, what packages LyX needs for what feature etc.

Well, the OS of choice of elegant people is macOS and you cannot argue that they do not care that thing do not "just work". Yet, they install MacTeX, which come in only one size (3G), maybe the 500M of extras if they are very fussy and they are happy with it. It does not update, but once a year one can install a new one.

Are these people so different to what you describe as windows users? We are not talking about children here.

As user I need a system with which I can just write my text and focus on that.

Yes, and the key to that is not to update a running system too often.

If I like e.g. to wavy underline some words, I just want to do this and not to get cryptic error messages that a package is not available. How should I know that the missing package is necessary because of my wavy underline?

People who use wavy underlines deserve whatever happen ;)


Reply via email to