Le 14/03/2018 à 02:43, Uwe Stöhr a écrit :
[...]
So the average user does not know how LaTeX works, what a package is and how it
is installed or uninstalled.
Sure he does know if he installed LyX himself. as I pointed out in the other
thread. I tried to be an average Window user (a bit difficult, as I am neither
for LyX as I am experienced nor for Windows 10 as I know very little about it)
and ran the last bundle installer.
The reference to MiKTeX is present throughout the installation process,
particularly of course during the MiKTeX install itself, but also when MiKTeX
installs missing LaTeX packages.
As I wrote, most of my students and colleagues at the University uses LyX for
large documents without knowing anything about LaTeX.
Did they install themselves, or did some experienced guy did it for them?
Why don't you trust my experience in helping LyX users? Why should I lie to you
with my experience?
I am convinced that none of us deny your experience and think that you are lying
in any manner.
Therefore our main userbase are just users. The task of the installer is to
provide a working LyX for them.
Users with more knowledge know what to do and how LaTeX works. Therefore I won't
bother the majority of users with a decision they cannot make because lack of
knowledge. I explained now a dozen times why I cannot allow these users to deny
an update because then their LaTeX can be broken and they are lost.
The experienced users have already all possibilities to handle LaTeX differently
as I wrote.
The current shortened version of the new dialog which could be inserted at the
very beginning of the installation process is clearly addressed to people
knowing something about MiKTeX.
<cite>
The LyX installer requires to update MiKTeX to the newest 2.9 version.
If you use MiKTeX with other applications and do not want to update now,
cancel the LyX installation.
Cancel Continue
</cite>
Plain users are thus urged to continue without further hesitation, as you do in
the bundle installer when it comes to the MiKTeX install:
<cite>
${LangFileString} LatexInfo 'Now the installer of the LaTeX-distribution
$\"MiKTeX$\" will be launched.$\r$\n\
57 To install the program press the
$\"Next$\"-button in the installer windows until the installation begins.$\r$\n\
58 $\r$\n\
59 !!! Please use all default options of the
MiKTeX-installer !!!'
</cite>
[...]
I do not know how we should resolve this matter now. But, longer term,
we need someone to create a Windows installer that JUST installs LyX,
much the way the OSX installer does. As JMarc said, users on OSX seem to
manage to install a LaTeX distribution, etc, independently. Surely
Windows users can manage to do the same.
I cannot accept that you are telling me what is good for Windows users. I
explained my decision but you are not understanding. Why don't you try it out
yourself to see what can happen?
Nobody here wants to tell you what is good for Windows users, the question
raised is about what is good for the future of LyX. The present situation shows
clearly that the packaging approach has attained some limits.
I understand that you may be exhausted to explain again and again to Linux users
(accustomed to global OS packaging e.g. with experimental, unstable, testing and
stable releases) that Windows is such a weird OS with lots of software
instabilities that proposing a LyX packaging is the only way to make LyX work.
But the debate must take place in a non passionate manner, later on.
The urgent action is the 2.3.0 release.
--
Jean-Pierre
