On 2012-04-23, stefano franchi wrote:

> BTW: I am using memoir with Luatex, language is utf8(Xetex), babel
> loaded with Greek polutoniko (among others).

This is important info. Many more things may go wrong in this case.

I have no experience with LuaTeX and I don't know whether it works with
the babel greek option at all (and which fonts are used in this case).

Maybe your document loads fontspec after babel and this way overwrites the
selection of LGR-encoded fonts for Greek. 

Do you use some hack to overwrite the font-encoding switch usually done
with \textgreek?


> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 2:48 AM, Guenter Milde <mi...@users.sf.net> wrote:
>> On 2012-04-23, René Grognard wrote:

>> For all methods, you must mark the text in question as "Greek".
> Done. In my case, Greek (polutoniko)

With LuaTeX, babel (instead of polyglossia) and Unicode (utf8 XeTeX), it
*may* be better not to set the language to Grekk (YMMV).

>> a) use the pre-composed Unicode characters in the "Greek extended" block
>>   (drag and drop from somewhere or use Insert>Symbols).

> Using insert>symbols works, but it is a pain to use. Copy and pasting
> from external sources does not. I see the proper greek on screen, but
> the characters simply disappear in the pdf.

Very strange. Does this happen to the same characters with the same language
setting?

Characters "disappearing" in the PDF are usually an indication of an
incomplete font. On screen, the system (or the QT libs or fontconfig, or
X...) use auto-substitution of missing characters in the configured font
with characters from another known system font, xetex and luatex do not have
this nice feature.

Make sure the document text font contains the pre-composed characters in the
Greek-extended Unicode block.

>> b) use the "LGR transliteration" which is described in the babel Greek
>>   documentation http://mirror.ctan.org/info/babel/babel.pdf

...

> But in order for this to work, some characters need to be considered
> as letters. These characters are <, >, ~, ‘,
> ’, " and |.

Yes, these are the characters used to mark accents in the LGR
transliteration (except for the single quotes - the corresponding accent
markers are the ASCII chars ` and '.

>>   There is no need to use ERT (except, maybe for the tilde character).

> This is exactly what I was trying to do, but I cannot get it to work.
> Example:

> If I enter

><epim'eleia >eato\~u

> and set the language to Greek Poutoniko, this is what I get in the pdf:

> <επιμέλεια >εατο\ῦ

> which is unsurprising, since the latex code in View>source is:

> \foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\textless{}epim'eleia
> \textgreater{}eato\textbackslash{}\textasciitilde{}u}

> (You mentioned probelms with the tilde, but not even the breathing
> accents are correct. and the Latex looks completely wrong)

Sorry, I did not consider LyX' "paranoia escaping" of text input because
there is no problem using <>| in the unicodesymbols file (only ~, because
this is no-break space in "normal" LaTeX, disabled by Babel for Greek but
re-enabled by LyX).

The conversion of <, >, and | to \textless, \textgreater, and \textbar is
only required with the legacy OT1 font encoding (i.e. never in Greek and
not with LyX's default setting of T1). Write a bug report?

> If, instead, I enter  \textgreek{<epim'eleia >eato\~u} in ERT, I get
> the expected output

This means you should be fine with ERT for these characters (or
phrases/words containing these characters) and the tilde.
(The \textgreek is inserted by LyX when you set the language.)


>>   Alternatively, you can look in the file "unicodesymbols" in the LyXdir to
>>   see how LyX maps the Unicode characters to LaTeX code.

>> c) if you load the "LGRX" extended font definitions for the Greek LGR fonts
>>   (http://milde.users.sourceforge.net/LGR/) in the latex preamble, you
>>   can also use standard accent commands (and their extensions) as
>>   described in http://milde.users.sourceforge.net/LGR/lgrxenc.pdf For
>>   single accents, this should also work with accent-... LyXfuns + base
>>   character in the minibuffer or bound to some key.


> I will have to try this once I get method (b) to work.

With XeTeX or LuaTeX, I recommend

* Use polyglossia instead of babel.

* Use a text font that contains the precomposed Greek characters
  (you can also set up a different font for Greek and Latin in the LaTeX
  preamble, see the fontspec manual).

* Use Unicode characters for the input. (The LGR transliteration does not
  work without legacy 8-bit LGR encoded fonts.)
  
Günter  

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