Hi all, just a little suggestion here. If anyone is going to redo this project, why not doing it with Kicad which is free and available in many platforms? I'm working with kicad since years and I think it's well suited to even large designs (I didn't check about this particular one though). HTH Frank IZ8DWF
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Ken Pettit <[email protected]> wrote: > Hey Guys, > > Sorry for the delayed input to this thread ... been busy getting ready for > my China trip on Friday. > > If we were going to do another run of NADSBoxes (and possibly REX) via > "group funding", I would want to set it up as an official project with a > schedule, milestones, etc. Particularly expectations on > return-on-investment for anyone contributing to the fund. When it was just > me spening my own money (and even more than that, time), it didn't matter > when or even if I ever got it done. But that changes considerably when > other start to have real money involved. > > When I did the original run of NADSBox, I was effectively single with no > kids (they had moved to a different state). So I had an abundance of time > on my hands. Now I am re-married with two kids ages 5 and 3 and I have a > building full of ASIC engineers who report to me. To me, my time has become > more valuable than money (never thought I would say somthing like that! :) > Deveoping the original NADSBox took 2,200 hours. A second run wouldn't be > *nearly* as much time, but it would take on the order of 300-400 hours. > This is because I no longer have a PADS PCB license and must re-do the > layout in Cadence Allegro. A project schedule would look something like: > > 1. Check for parts availablity (I know the PIC is obsolete but still > available). > 2. Select a new SD card socket > 3. Redo the PCB layout (this would be identical layout, just in a new CAD > package). When I tried to import to Allegro, it sorta got there, but all of > the net names were lost and it shows thousands of design rule check (DRC) > errors. DRC count should be zero. > 4. Do a small test run of 5-6 PCBs to validate the "new" layout. > 5. Program and test the new boards. Validate they fit in the existing > NADSBox enclosure. > 6. Make any necnessary changes to the PCB if it doesn't work. > 7. If needed, do a second run of 5-6 PCBs to validate the potential changes > from #6 > 8. Make any necessary changes to the enclosure diagrams and have new > enclosures built. These were done by Serpack in the LA area and have a 3-4 > week lead-time. This is largest expense of the project in terms of cash. > The setup fee for pad printing and machining is on the order of $2,500 > alone. That doesn't include actual price of the enclosures or the per-unit > cost of performing the machining (these two together probably add up to > $23). The setup fee is amortized over the number of enclosures you > purchase. > 9. Generate instructions, software and tools so a PCB house can perform > programming and testing of the boards. > 10. Get a PCB house to manufacture, assemble, program, test the PCBs > 11. Provide enclosures to PCB house along with mounting screws, etc. and > get them to assemble the final units. > > With a bit of Steve's assistance I could manage getting the board house to > do assembly and programming of REX also. We would probably want to change > the Gerbers such that the PCB edges are true castellated edges instead of > needing to be hand grinded. There are PCB houses that can do these cleanly > with the proper copper clearance from the edge of the PCB and liquid solder > mask rules. > > Ken > > On 7/30/17 12:13 AM, Gary Weber wrote: > > With a Woolly, the REX would be obsolete, no? But if there's indeed a need > for all three products, then indeed I would stand beside you on the sharing > of all three. > > On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 11:42 PM, ray gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Gary; >> >> I'd be happy to have someone share putting up the money for everything. If >> you don't think rex is as an attractive an idea, I'm willing to bear that >> burden alone, and we could split nads and woolly costs between us. >> >> Glad to have you aboard! >> >> ray >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Gary Weber >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 3:41 PM >> >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [M100] Model T upgrades >> >> Ray, >> >> If you feel compelled to contribute to another production run effort, I >> guarantee you that you are not the only one interested in sharing in that >> contribution. >> >> Here's my take on things: >> >> NADSBox -- I think there probably is quite a bit of interest in this >> product even today. I'm willing to bet there would be at least 10-15 >> immediate pending sales on this given the interest I've seen on this list >> alone. >> REX -- This might be interesting as well, however it sounds like WOOLLY >> would likely be a better place to put engineering effort & dollars. >> WOOLLY -- I'm betting the majority of folks on this list would likely want >> one of these. If I had to pick only one product alone to focus on and bring >> to market, I'd pick this one! REX functionality, RAM expansion (for CP/M), >> and WiFi capability. All of that would be amazing to have in one piece of >> hardware that can fit into an Option ROM socket. We're talking about a >> potential replacement for all of the ReMem and REX variations that existed >> previously, and then some. >> >> I'm willing to contribute significantly to the effort to bring any and all >> of these products to life (for the second time for REX & NADSBox of course). >> And when I say contribute, I don't just mean encouragement & testing & >> labor. I'm talking about financial. :) Probably the areas I can best help >> in would be fronting a good chunk of the costs for sourcing of parts & >> production, and then also on the eventual fulfillment. (Either hosted on >> Club100.org or on Web8201.net or some other central hub, doesn't matter. I >> can definitely assist on the eCommerce end.) >> >> Gary >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 3:26 PM, ray gordon <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Ken, >>> >>> That's all fine by me. I would have to get a cashier's check and mail it >>> to you, because I can't pay that much by paypal all at once. Maybe I could >>> paypal it to you over the course of a week. >>> >>> Let me know when you're all set to move. >>> >>> ray >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Ken Pettit >>> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 8:50 PM >>> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [M100] Model T upgrades >>> >>> Hi Ray, >>> >>> When I did the first run of NADSBoxes in 2008 / 2009 timeframe, my >>> up-front cash expenditure was $13K for 240 NADSBoxes. This is when I was >>> having them built and assembled in China. I probably still could have them >>> built and assembled there, though it is a bit more challenging since I no >>> longer live there. >>> >>> Turns out I am traveling to China next week and will be visiting Shenzhen >>> for 5 days! YEA!!! Maybe I could visit my old haunts while there (in fact >>> I am looking forward to it). >>> >>> One of the concerns with NADSBox is that I need to update the layout a >>> bit to select a different SD card socket ... the socket used in the last >>> round of NADSBoxes was acquired from a Chinese source with no real part >>> number or way to track it. So the footprint is specific to that part which >>> is no longer available. >>> >>> I am working actively on Woolly which would replace REX and in a way, >>> NADSBox, via TPDD access to a host via WiFi. But this is still a big >>> development effort, both in terms of hardware and software. >>> >>> If you still wanted to put up the cash after reading this, we probably >>> wouldn't need to build 240 NADSBoxes as demand isn't what it was in 2009, >>> but it would still be in the $8K - $9K range I would guess for NADSBox >>> alone. I don't know for REX. >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> On 7/28/17 7:05 PM, ray gordon wrote: >>> >>> I'm willing to put up the cash necessary if Ken & Stephen would be >>> willing to do another run of NADS & REX. >>> >>> Ray g >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: M100 <[email protected]> on behalf of Gregory >>> McGill <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 11:50 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [M100] Model T upgrades >>> >>> nope.. it seems we go through this weekly, rex is open source, you are >>> welcome to make your own if you are up to it,. i have two i am meaning to >>> build but surface mount is not my thing so they keep getting put off.. >>> boards are on oshpark and the instructions are googlable nadsbox is not >>> available.. you can use a pc and laddiealpha or other tools there's one for >>> android too with a togo cable >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Robert Prather >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> Just got a Model 100 off of eBay. If I'd known of the Club 100 site, I'd >>>> have purchased one there. There's some yellow on this one, but the memory >>>> appears maxed out (installed internally), so wasn't a bad find overall. >>>> >>>> I've used a color computer 2 for years, and love it, and decided to try >>>> out the Model 100. Love it so far. >>>> >>>> From the Club 100 site, I saw that there used to be NADSBox's available >>>> as well as REX modules. >>>> >>>> I'm emailing to find out if it's still possible to purchase these? I'm >>>> also trying to track down the little legs that can prop up the Model 100. >>>> >>>> I'd really appreciate any help anyone can provide. I didn't want to try >>>> ordering from the Club 100 site, because I wanted a confirmation before I >>>> did. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> >>>> Robert >>> >>> >>> >> > >
