Every time I see one of those evil NiCad batteries, I replace it with a
0.5F supercap.

I have never had an issue with my M100, or with the Olivetti equivalent
(number escapes me at the moment)

Having said that, the oldest would have been 8 years ago, so I don't have
the same 30years of experience regarding leaking characters.

Doug

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024, 11:44 am Brian K. White, <[email protected]> wrote:

> You can run plugged in to the wall for all normal random on/off
> operating times without worrying about it too much, IE, all day long for
> 8 to 12 hours or whatever, and for multiple days in a row, if unplugged
> when turned off.
>
> And you can leave it plugged in turned on or off overnight for one night
> to a few days.
>
> And you can even get away with exceeding those pretty badly once in a
> while.
>
> What you want to avoid is plugging it in and leaving it plugged in 24/7
> for weeks or months or years, whether it's on or off.
>
> The harm is the charging circuit that charges the internal nicd battery
> soldered on the motherboard. The battery is not a lead/acid or gel cell
> that has a float value where it can just stay floating at a certain
> value forever, and the charging circuit is not a smart modern battery
> manager that knows how to stop charging when the battery is full, it
> just keeps on supplying a bit higher voltage than the the cells own
> voltage, and current just keeps on flowing backwards through the cell,
> and sooner or later this kills the battery by a couple different
> possible mechanisms from plain heat & pressure making it leak and cook
> off all the electrolyte, to things like the electrolysis process like
> electroplating, eating away all of one plate and building gunk up on the
> other.
>
> It's pretty forgiving so you don't have to be super careful. You can
> *mostly* never even think about it, and a normal random usage pattern
> will just naturally be fine. Just don't plug it in and forget about it
> for a year.
>
> It doesn't touch the AA's and it doesn't matter if the machine is turned
> on or turned off.
>
> Now that you make me run through it all like that, I realise this might
> finally be be an actual valid useful reason to install a supercap
> instead of a new nimh cell.
>
> Mostly there is no point, because both a cap and a battery will only
> last about the same number of years, and both will start to leak
> corrosive juice after about the same number of years. A cap is not
> harmed by being allowed to go all the way dead (which a battery is), nor
> by being allowed to stay dead for a long time (extra especially bad for
> a battery), but even a battery that has been so badly treated still
> supplies more standby time than a brand new perfect cap. All in all, no
> point.
>
> But one difference that matters, a cap should not be harmed by the
> crudeness of the charging circuit. A cap will just charge up and stop
> conducting and won't care about the charging supply at all. No current
> will keep flowing through the cap, no cooking or electrolysis etc.
>
> I have always been very much not in the supercap camp, but this is one
> real thing.
>
> --
> bkw
>
> On 3/16/24 16:33, Will Senn wrote:
> > Wow, Brian! Super clear. Now, I want a REX# :).
> >
> > When you say that leaving it plugged in will kill the battery, do you
> > mean that I should run it off AA batteries most of the time and not my
> > 6v 200ma adapter? And the battery you're talking about killing is the
> > nicad on the board, right?
> >
> >   Thanks,
> >
> > Will
> >
> >
> > On 3/16/24 3:21 PM, Brian K. White wrote:
> >> I summarize REX as: "An on-board software-controlled option rom
> >> library and ram image library."
> >>
> >> That's the shortest way I've found to say what it does, but that's not
> >> the same as saying what it's good for or why you want one.
> >>
> >> Because of the particular features and limitations of a M100, probably
> >> the single most life-improving thing you can do to one is to have
> >> TS-DOS in ROM.
> >>
> >> That one thing addresses a few different pain points.
> >>
> >> The biggest pain points of a M100 are:
> >>
> >> - Battery-backed ram only storage. Very little storage, and easily
> >> erased or corrupted, either by dead batteries or a software crash.
> >>
> >> - The way in manages machine-language software. How they all want to
> >> run in the same place in ram, yet the OS does not provide very much in
> >> the way of automatically moving programs into and out of that spot, so
> >> software is always clobbering other software, or you limit yourself to
> >> just having a single machine language app installed, or you have to
> >> figure out the arcane way to hack the binaries to relocate them to run
> >> at different addresses side by side, or you have to keep double copies
> >> of binaries so that the running copy can get clobbered and later
> >> replaced from the ram file copy...
> >>
> >> - The main rom provides no binary file transfer other than the
> >> cassette. And no *convenient* file transfer even for text.
> >>
> >> These things combine to make life kind of difficult. For instance you
> >> want some better file transfer app, but since you have no binary file
> >> transfer to begin with getting the file transfer app itself installed
> >> is a pain. Then once it's installed, it consumes precious ram, and is
> >> easily broken because of the way machine language apps are are run,
> >> and the simplest way to address that is to have a 2nd physical copy in
> >> ram, which uses up yet more of that precious 32k. etc.
> >>
> >> Having any tpdd client at all installed in any form makes transferring
> >> files a breeze, including binary files. This somewhat alleviates the
> >> small ram problem because you can easily put files away and get them
> >> back, as long as your tpdd software stays working.
> >>
> >> Even better is having a full featured tpdd client like ts-dos instead
> >> of teeny, and having it in rom instead of ram.
> >>
> >> That alleviates all kinds of annoyances.
> >> - It consumes almost no ram.
> >> - It doesn't require a pain in the neck bootstrap/loader process to
> >> get installed.
> >> - It isn't subject to being clobbered and needing to be reinstalled
> >> because of some other software writing over it or crashing.
> >> - It isn't lost after a hard reset or dead batteries.
> >>
> >> With TS-DOS in rom, you can pick up a totally dead machine, or totally
> >> kill your machine with a hard reset on purpose, or suffer a total ram
> >> corruption from buggy software, and with just "CALL 63012" you are up
> >> and running again, connect to a computer and pull down files.
> >>
> >> But even though this makes a lot of things a lot better, this still
> >> needs a computer and serial cable. The tpdd client just makes it so
> >> that you can effortlessly connect to a pc and move files back & forth,
> >> and having it in rom just means you can effortlessly always have the
> >> tpdd client regardless of crashes or dead batteries.
> >>
> >> That still leaves a couple things that could be better:
> >> - If you had a plain ts-dos option rom, it means you can't use any
> >> other option rom because the single socket is occupied already by
> ts-dos.
> >> - You still need a serial cable and pc (or a real tpdd drive or a
> >> Backpack or PDDuino) to actually get the files from somewhere / put
> >> them somewhere.
> >>
> >> REX gives you ts-dos in rom just for starters. It gives you ts-dos in
> >> rom which just that right there alleviates several things above, but
> >> also:
> >>
> >> - all other options roms besides ts-dos
> >> - full ram image backups
> >> - all on-device self-contained with no computer or serial cable needed
> >> (after initial loading)
> >> - impervious to dead batteries or resets or crashes
> >>
> >> And although you do need a computer to install option rom images onto
> >> the rex one time, ts-dos in particular is pre-installed, so that
> >> single most-needed one never needs even the initial one-time install
> >> from a computer. Only all the other roms need to be loaded from a pc
> >> once. And the loading process is easy, because REXMGR uses tpdd
> >> protocol internally to pull the rom images from a pc. No
> >> bootstrapper/loader procedure.
> >>
> >> The other option roms give you mostly a few different office software
> >> kits, ie spreadsheets and word processors, and a few other things like
> >> there is a FORTH rom and an assembler/debugger/renumberer.
> >>
> >> The ram image backups give you essentially more copies of 32k ram. It
> >> helps a few different ways:
> >> - you can physically hold more than 32k of apps or data.
> >> - you can recover from a dead battery or reset or corrupted ram from
> >> crashed software by restoring a ram image.
> >>
> >> There are something like 30 or so available slots, and each slot can
> >> be either an option rom or a ram image. That's a lot.
> >>
> >> All without a computer. In the coffee shop, on the train etc, just
> >> recover from dead zero in a few seconds. Just "Call 63012" and away
> >> you go, all interactive app and menu driven after that.
> >>
> >> So that is why you want a REX of any stripe, REX Classic, REX#, or
> >> REXCPM.
> >>
> >> Now for REXCPM in particular....
> >>
> >> Those particular advantages are something the REXCPM is less good for.
> >>
> >> REXCPM does give you all of that, but only as long as the M100
> >> internal battery is not dead and the REXCPM and bus adapter board
> >> remain installed in both sockets.
> >>
> >> You can recover from software crashes that scramble the ram, and from
> >> intentional hard resets that wipe all ram (ctrl-break-reset), but not
> >> from dead batteries or switching off the memory power switch on the
> >> bottom for more than a few minutes, or removing the device from the
> >> m100 for more than a few minutes.
> >>
> >> If the M100 internal battery runs out, or you uninstall it for more
> >> than a few minutes (you do get a pretty good grace period of several
> >> minutes, maybe even over 10 minutes) then you have to reload the
> >> REXCPM from scratch as you just experienced. If you had a REX Classic
> >> or REX# instead of REXCPM, all you would have done is type "call
> >> 63012" and you'd be all back up & running. No pc, no "37 easy steps".
> >> Done. And to remember "call 63012" just write it on a sticker or
> >> label-maker on the bottom. Put it on the underside of the option rom
> >> or battery cover if you want to hide it but then you have to at least
> >> remember that it's there.
> >>
> >> I did make a "UPS" for REXCPM that should keep it alive for a few
> >> years, but it's pretty involved to build and ultimately hard to justify.
> >> I don't pretend it's practical for most people, but it does work and
> >> exists.
> >> https://github.com/bkw777/REXCPM_UPS
> >>
> >> You have to buy the parts from digikey or mouser etc, order pcbs from
> >> elecrow or oshpark etc, and then it's a pretty fiddly soldering job,
> >> and it ends up costing as much or more than the rexcpm itself just to
> >> give it a battery. And for all that, I think I only estimated 6 months
> >> per cell x 4 cells = 2 years, but that's after the M100's own
> >> batteries run out, and if you have fresh alkaline AA's and a charged
> >> internal battery, the M100 itself can last anywhere from a few months
> >> to a year. So maybe up to 3 years?
> >>
> >> A better long-term solution would be a keeper. You remove the rexcpm
> >> and plug it in to something with socket and a big battery. But that
> >> doesn't help with one that's installed in a machine. You'd need to
> >> remove it from the machine to put it in the keeper. Plus the molex
> >> sockets are no longer made. There are a few around available still but
> >> this would be a wasteful way to use one up instead of keeping them to
> >> repair machines. Really, for the long term like over 5 years, it's
> >> probably more practical to just let it die and reload it. With a
> >> convenient bootstrapper and tpdd server on a pc, it only takes a few
> >> minutes to reload a rexcpm from scratch. It's several steps that
> >> requires a cheat sheet to follow, but none are very difficult or long.
> >> The hard part is just deciphering the original directions to figure
> >> out what actually are the steps you need to do.
> >>
> >> So all in all, I'm not sure how necessary the ups is. It's probably
> >> more practical to just do 2 things to live a happy life with a REXCPM:
> >>
> >> 1 - Keep it installed in a machine. And keep that machine charged.
> >> (Unfortunately, you can't just lave the machine plugged in to the wall
> >> 24/7 for months, that will cook the internal battery.)
> >>
> >> 2 - Get good at reinstalling it. It's several steps, but it's possible
> >> to write a little cheat sheet that is easier to follow than the full
> >> original documentation. And none of the steps are very difficult or
> >> long. You don't even need the cheat sheet after a few runs through.
> >>
> >> If you aren't specifically wanting to run CP/M then I always say a
> >> REX# is far more practical. REX# is an nvram device that acts like a
> rom.
> >>
> >> Instead of ever needing to recover the REX, the REX is what recovers
> >> your M100.
> >>
> >
>
> --
> bkw
>
>

Reply via email to