Aggreed. That's the pretense in a lot of technology and what we do today. On 8/20/12, Dónal Fitzpatrick <[email protected]> wrote: > no question Josh. But my fear is that Apple thinks it has done all it needs > to for those of us who are blind and need to access these devices. They > have responded to the need to provide accessibility by developing voiceover. > Yep it's free, generally usable and ticks oh I'd say, 85% of the boxes. I > just think they still can refine it. Fleksy is just such a refinement. > > Let's just say I've heard enough skuttlebut which would indicate that blind > users aren't a priority, and that other disabilities are. I believe the job > isn't finished. > > Dónal > On 20 Aug 2012, at 23:47, josh gregory <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Ok I get what you're saying, but, it's better than Windows where you >> have to use Narrator to get a screen reader from the Internet. Now i'm >> not bashing windows, it's still good for what Vo can't do. But I just >> think vo is more universally accessible. >> >> On 8/20/12, Dónal Fitzpatrick <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Travis, >>> >>> I've played with the free app and personally have no intention of paying >>> the >>> "blind tax" that seems to be on these apps. However I'll also add that >>> I've >>> begun to chat with the developers (*smile* as a result of a mildly >>> offensive >>> and rather negative tweet about the app) and they are very nice guys who >>> are >>> extremely committed to what they are doing. >>> >>> Wearing my usability hat for a second, I think what they're trying to do >>> makes sense. I don't know about you, but I don't hit letters accurately >>> 100% of the time. So in essence all they are doing is building in error >>> correction for inaccurate keypresses. That's an over simplification but >>> in >>> essence that's how I see it. Now from the standpoint of the research, >>> taken >>> heuristically as it were, that makes sense to me. Allowing the device >>> to >>> "assist" or "second guess" the user for whom traditional input doesn't >>> quite >>> work is a good idea. >>> >>> Where it falls down in my view is the fact that this input method isn't >>> available globally. So one cannot, as it were, select the "fleksy >>> keyboard" >>> as opposed to apple's own variants. As an aside, they tell me that >>> developers can in fact incorporate their work into their apps and they >>> have >>> had interest in this. >>> >>> What jumps out at me is that a software developer has seen a niche/gap >>> in >>> the market and filled it. The reason, and again this is pure opinion on >>> my >>> part, is that voiceover (whether on IOS or the desktop platforms) has >>> stagnated. There, I've said it and now the apple fanboys/girls will no >>> doubt create a strong rope made of iPhone cables with which to hang me >>> from >>> the nearest cellphone mast. However, let's think about it. We all >>> (well >>> certainly I and a number of my friends did) were delighted with the >>> emergence of Alex, trackpad use, access to touchscreens etc. However >>> what's >>> happened since? We still have the same bugs, the gesture/keyboard >>> interactions haven't been refined and software such as Pages, Numbers, >>> Keynote and Preview still are not, in my opinion, usable to the extent >>> they >>> should be. >>> >>> So returning to Fleksy and what I think it shows. I think it shows that >>> Apple don't have the monopoly on ideas. I think it shows the problems >>> inherent in the design of voiceover on both mobile and desktop platforms >>> in >>> that developers cannot "plug in" to the screenreader and create >>> extensions. >>> That is bad, ladies and gentlemen because it means as long as we stick >>> on >>> Apple platforms, we've got to put up with what they give us and that, >>> for >>> the past few years hasn't been much. I now expect the usual blind >>> response >>> of "oh but we should all be grateful to apple because. (blah blah)" and >>> all >>> of that is perfect true. But how long do we have to remain grateful >>> for? >>> We're paying our money just like anyone else so should expect >>> improvements >>> in the user experience. There are seven, yes only seven, new voiceover >>> features in mountain lion, and many bugs that have been there for years >>> are >>> still there. So yes I am delighted apple introduced a free >>> screenreader, >>> but they're happy too as they have got money from me (and other blind >>> users) >>> as a consequence that they otherwise wouldn't have received. >>> >>> I could wax lyrical on some theoretical analysis I've done on all this >>> but >>> most people would accuse me of being boring so I won't. >>> >>> that's my few cents worth on Fleksy, apple and the world according to >>> Garp. >>> >>> Dónal >>> On 20 Aug 2012, at 22:09, Travis Siegel <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Ahh, Donald, an excellent summary of the app, and exactly what I >>>> needed. >>>> I couldn't figure out from previous emails what the point was, so >>>> thanks >>>> for that. >>>> It does sound like it could be a useful app. However, for now, I'll >>>> stick >>>> with apple's method, I like it, and it works for me, and I'm relatively >>>> quick, so I don't see a need to change everything now. :) >>>> Yes, I'm a bit stuck in my ways. :) >>>> Thanks for the explanation, it makes a whole lot of sense now. >>>> >>>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>>> >>>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access >>>> forum >>>> at either the list's own dedicated web archive: >>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> >>>> or at the public Mail Archive: >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>>> >>>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >>>> virus >>>> and worm-free! >>>> >>>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by >>>> visiting >>>> the list website at: >>>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>> >>> Dónal Fitzpatrick >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >>> >>> To reply to this post, please address your message to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >>> at >>> either the list's own dedicated web archive: >>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> >>> or at the public Mail Archive: >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >>> >>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, >>> virus >>> and worm-free! >>> >>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by >>> visiting >>> the list website at: >>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Ways to Connect with me: >> >> facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo >> >> twitter.com/joshg93 >> Skype: joshgregory93 >> FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: [email protected] >> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> >> >> To reply to this post, please address your message to >> [email protected] >> >> You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum >> at either the list's own dedicated web archive: >> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> >> or at the public Mail Archive: >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. >> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> >> >> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus >> and worm-free! >> >> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting >> the list website at: >> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> > > Dónal Fitzpatrick > [email protected] > > > > <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> > > To reply to this post, please address your message to > [email protected] > > You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at > either the list's own dedicated web archive: > <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> > or at the public Mail Archive: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. > Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> > > The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus > and worm-free! > > Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting > the list website at: > <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/> >
-- Ways to Connect with me: facebook.com/evercuriousmasteryodo twitter.com/joshg93 Skype: joshgregory93 FaceTime, iMessage and iChat: [email protected] <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net ---> To reply to this post, please address your message to [email protected] You can find an archive of all messages posted to the Mac-Access forum at either the list's own dedicated web archive: <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html> or at the public Mail Archive: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>. Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from: <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free! Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the list website at: <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
