Yes, the numpad does make things easier, and on the laptops, you can use the 
trackpad commander which also makes navigating much easier.
On Sep 29, 2012, at 11:18 PM, Shaun Oliver wrote:

> I've also had it said to me that if you can get hold of a numpad, bluetooth 
> or otherwise, you can make full use of numpad commander and it makes the 
> navigating experience just that much better.
> I personally had no issue with learning to use the mac. I learned to drive on 
> around two years ago, as a friend of mine had one. ever since then, I could 
> wander into a store, turn voiceover on and have a play.
> Now I have one, I've not looked back.
> 
> On 30/09/2012, at 12:45 PM, "Debbie April Yuille" <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Here, Here. Well said. I've just migrated to mac and I'm quite surprised
>> with how accessible it really is. I have virtually no site, and I'm learning
>> to get around it quite well. I particularly love the way that you can use
>> the Item chooser to navigate around a page rather than tab around a hole
>> screen in other systems to find what you want. 
>> 
>> Debbie
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected]
>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mrs. Lynnette
>> Annabel Smith
>> Sent: Sunday, 30 September 2012 3:39 AM
>> To: Mac OSX & iOS Accessibility
>> Subject: Making The Most Of Your Accessible Tools; A Passionate Rant [Was
>> "so wish apple had done this"]
>> 
>> Hello John, Will and all
>> 
>> As somebody with vision looking in, so to speak, I frequently find it
>> astonishing when I hear people criticising what Apple is doing with
>> accessibility; particularly in view of the practicalities. For instance,
>> unless you're a pirate and by definition, therefore, a thief, Freedom
>> Scientific, GW Micro and Dolphin Access, to name but three vendors, charge a
>> very great deal of money for their accessibility tools. Also, Microsoft
>> charges for their operating system, even for the most basic version, over 5
>> times what Apple does. VoiceOver is a free and, most of the time, very
>> reliable product. It gives the user access to a WYSIWYG, (what you see is
>> what you get) interface to websites. Most of which can, if you take the time
>> to learn to use it, be navigated extremely well using VoiceOver and Safari.
>> 
>> Ultimately, it really depends upon the individual. If you just want a sheet
>> of virtual paper with a hand-holding web environment, by all means use your
>> other products and I wish you the very best of luck in all you do.
>> 
>> I, (and I count my lucky stars, believe me), have the advantage of vision
>> and I have seen both sides of this. I do see some sites where VoiceOver just
>> will not play nicely and yes, we have seen some pretty spectacular crashes
>> at times. However, in the general scheme of things, the environment is more
>> stable and just as, if not more, reliable than the competition if, and it is
>> a very big if, the pilot of the machine takes the time and effort to learn
>> to handle it.
>> 
>> I sincerely hope that we see a time when Apple perfects their accessibility
>> tools. But make no mistake about it; they are committed to accessibility and
>> they will improve their offerings. Remember also that the competing products
>> have been available far far longer than has VoiceOver. Yes, I know that you
>> can't always go by that and I know also that Apple has been involved in the
>> field of accessibility for around 8 years now. However, just cast your mind
>> back to how things were before Apple entered the market. Apple really has
>> made a difference, not only to their own products, but also the competition.
>> 
>> I recall the vice president of one accessibility company saying:
>> "It's all very well having an operating system with a talking installer. But
>> that's not much use if you can't do anything with it afterwards."
>> 
>> That statement was a direct quote. It was, and remains, the utterings of a
>> frightened man who feared losing custom. As things have worked out, that is
>> exactly what has happened. Literally tens of thousands of visually impaired
>> users across the world have now migrated to Apple's products; desktop and
>> mobile. Indeed, the vice president of Freedom Scientific himself is the
>> proud owner of an iPhone. Make of that what you will!
>> 
>> Anyway, I am ranting. But I sometimes find it really disappointing when I
>> hear people complaining like this. People who have freedom to choose. The
>> long and the short of this is: If you want perfection, you'll be waiting for
>> a very very long time. If you are prepared to be flexible and innovative,
>> you have the power at your fingertips, quite literally in some cases. If,
>> however, you are happy with constant virtualisation, hand-holding and costly
>> solutions, then perhaps Apple's platforms are not for you. yes, there are
>> free and low-cost applications available out there for other operating
>> systems. And that is to be applauded. However, you are still working within
>> the confines of an often insecure, vulnerable and unstable environment.
>> 
>> Which ever option you choose to take is entirely down to your preference.
>> However, although I can understand a degree of frustration when things don't
>> quite work out; and yes, it does happen to my other half as well quite
>> frequently, the best thing you could do is to make the most of the failures.
>> Try to reliably replicate them and, if possible, send your crash reports to
>> Apple. That is the only way your problems will be fixed. It isn't reasonable
>> to expect Apple to foresee every eventuality and I urge cooperation and
>> patience. Believe it or not, as somebody with vision, I can tel you that
>> Internet Explorer 9 and FireFox 15 are not invulnerable and do crash quite
>> frequently, even without accessibility tools in the mix. Speaking
>> personally, I learned to do much more than point and click and I learned
>> most of it on an Apple Mac. I also made it my business to learn to use
>> VoiceOver in order that I can interact with my other half who is, like many
>> people in this group, totally bl
>> ind. I feel for each and every one of you. But I urge you to try and make
>> the very best of what you have available. Only in that way will you be able
>> to evolve with the ever-changing world of technologies, assistive and
>> otherwise.
>> 
>> Ladies and gentlemen, I apologise for the rant. This is, however, a topic on
>> which I hold passionate views.
>> 
>> My very best and most sincere wishes to each and every one of you.
>> 
>> Lynne
>> 
>> On 29 Sep 2012, at 17:24, John Panarese <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>   There are a lot of things you can do to fiddle and troubleshoot such
>> issues.  Do you have examples of sites and what you are specifically looking
>> for?  The reality is that VoiceOver and Safari are not perfect, but neither
>> are web designers.  Don't discount the possiblity of the site simply being
>> badly designed.
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to
>> [email protected]
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted    to the Mac-Access forum at
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>.
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus
>> and worm-free!
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting
>> the list website at:
>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
>> 
>> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
>> 
>> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
>> [email protected]
>> 
>> You can find an archive of all messages posted    to the Mac-Access forum at 
>> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
>> or at the public Mail Archive:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>.
>> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml>
>> 
>> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus 
>> and worm-free!
>> 
>> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
>> the list website at:
>> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>
> 
> <--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->
> 
> To reply to this post, please address your message to 
> [email protected]
> 
> You can find an archive of all messages posted    to the Mac-Access forum at 
> either the list's own dedicated web archive:
> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
> or at the public Mail Archive:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>.
> Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml>
> 
> The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
> worm-free!
> 
> Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting 
> the list website at:
> <http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to [email protected]

You can find an archive of all messages posted    to the Mac-Access forum at 
either the list's own dedicated web archive:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/pipermail/mac-access/index.html>
or at the public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml>

The Mac-Access mailing list is guaranteed malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free!

Please remember to update your membership options periodically by visiting the 
list website at:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

Reply via email to