On Aug 30, 2007, at 11:32, Juan Manuel Palacios wrote:
(DISCLAIMER after reading my message before hitting send: Hope it
doesn't come off as confrontational, that's really not my
intention! Rather, I want to be really sharp at pointing out our
shortcomings so that we can do a better job at fixing them)
On Aug 28, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Weissmann Markus wrote:
I personally like the services that Apple provides for us via
macosforge; with this installation we do have someone who is
updating our software and caring about our server.
Therefore I'd rather prefer to try to modify the macosforge
provided framework to meet our needs, at least as far as this is
possible. We can still add a ports page and a documentation
subdirectory and keep the wordpress installation etc.
I'm not proposing we forego any of Mac OS Forge's services if we
don't strictly have to, nor that we go back to our old website
(certainly not that! --not because of its functionality, which was
good, but because of its outdated look & feel--). All I had in mind
when recovering trunk/www/ from the ashes is that people take a
good look at those pages in their rendered form to better asses
what we'll need and what we'll discard in a new design going forward.
Mmm.... Better asses... (I think there's an "s" missing there.... :))
What I am indeed proposing is that we use the services we
currently have at our disposal in a dramatically improved and more
efficient manner. We now have on one end a wordpress front posing
as a sorely lacking home page for the project; and on the other
end, for the most part disjoint from the former, a considerably
disorganized trac front that, OK, is good at its main purpose of
tracking issue tickets and serving a source browser portal, but for
the rest is really inconsistent with the overall project look and
feel which we... eeeehhhhhhhhh, hhhhhmmmmmm, don't even have to
begin with!
Added to that, our current layout has no space for a guide section
nor an "Available Ports" page providing dynamic listings our
software offerings, something many many users have been craving for
ever since we moved away from OpenDarwin. Those two areas of our
old site now exist mostly as independent efforts (http://
geeklair.net/new_macports_guide/ & http://apollo.homeunix.net/
macports/ports.php), so in my opinion they are even more than
disjoint from the two fronts listed above.
We clearly need to get our act together and correct the current
situation by developing a unified site that does our web presence
the justice the project deserves. Take a look, for example, at
Adium's web page, www.adiumx.com, and focus on how their portal
integrates rather seamlessly with a blog, trac services and other
sections users might be interested in, both in functionality and in
look & feel. No need to stress what a long way a clean design like
that can go in making the whole web experience a valuable one...
something not many have expressed about our current site, if anyone...
With this initiative I'm stating that we need a whole new website,
complete with redesigned functionality, new look & feel and, if
resources allow, a new project logo (& mascot ;-). We are all aware
that's quite a bit of an undertaking, I'm not day dreaming here, so
lets try to put together a protocol of how we should go about
finding the resources we'll need to make it all happen. Do we have
something we can work our way up from? Is Chris' mockup not only an
appealing one (it is to me), but also one that will scale up well?
Do we already have any volunteers that want to start coding/
designing something? Do we have to go out to our user base and ask
people to join this task force? If so, how? What should the rules
look like?
Before answering any of those questions, I think it would be wise
to asses what it is that we all want to see in a new web page, in
order to be able to tell anyone donating his/her time/resources:
"this, this and that is what we want to have". I'd now like to
refocus this thread on exactly that, with my personal take following:
-) Home: a front page detailing what the project is about
(including a brief description of our ports tree), mission goals
(very brief summary of a project roadmap) and introductory text of
how to participate/join;
-) Download & Installation: section describing exactly what its
name says;
-) Available Ports: old ports.php page with some extensions I'll
explain below;
-) Documentation: new guide with automated regen in place;
-) Support & Development: link to our (revamped) trac portal.
If you (any reader) have payed attention to trunk/www lately,
you'll realize I'm pretty much in line with the old web page, which
I do believe was good in functionality. Differing from it, though:
-) first and foremost, of course, new look & feel and logo (and
project mascot? ;-) that wraps *all* of our site;
-) blog/news section, which can be provided by our existing
wordpress front, but which I wouldn't be too sure on how to
integrate with the rest of the site (separate tab? just below the
introductory text in the home page? maybe someone more webdesign
savvy can chime in);
-) Help section can easily be eliminated if we revamp trac's
welcoming page (take a look at trac.adiumx.com);
-) love Chris' idea of a sidebar, which can have a "Shortcuts"
section with direct links to areas we infer will be of special
interest to users. Chris does this but calls it "Development", and
I think that overlaps a tad too much with "Support & Development"
as a main section; I'd just call it "Shortcuts" and make it as
broad in scope as we like (shortcuts don't have to be developer
oriented only ;-). Another good example of a sidebar can be found
in Webkit's site (www.webkit.org), another page I love and that I
think we should study to design ours;
-) layout of "Available Ports" should be "re-thought" to allow room
for a "Build Status" section that will be populated with html
output from build log submissions, once we start our automated
build runs (http://trac.macports.org/projects/macports/wiki/
PortLoggingProposal , which I/we will hopefully write before the
sun becomes a white dwarf).
What says y'all? Anything obvious I'm missing? Anything obnoxious
about my ideas/proposal? I'd really love to get this show on the
road ASAP, so it would be great to get at least some feedback to
finally declare a "design freeze" that will allow us to set the
design team that will hopefully form in a defined course.
Regards to all and thanks for reading this far, as always ;-)
Just wanted to quickly say "yes" to pretty much everything you wrote.
Also, in May, I started working on a new MacPorts web site design,
but never posted it. I'll dust it off and post what I have, and
people can see what they think.
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