This is the a good question. The control of the web and all things associate 
with it (now access to banking) depend on them certs. By expiring a root CA you 
get rid of a lot of stubborn old people.

Adrian


> On 3 Oct 2021, at 00:56, Michael <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> ugh. Well, doing a search shows a LOT of articles about this very issue -- 
> this was apparently a known "this is going to affect a lot of people" deal, 
> and "just update your software, or ... sorry." was the only answer.
> 
> But, I at least did find out why certs expire. 
> Seriously though: A cert identifies a domain. If you sell/buy a domain, you 
> want to be able to invalidate all existing certs for that domain.
> 
> And as I see that, I'm immediately struck by two things:
> 1. SSL, and a cert's job, is to validate the connection, not the person on 
> the other end. It's to prevent MitM attacks. (Putting the domain name in -- 
> when multiple names can go to the same server? Why?)
> 2. The DNS is the obvious place to put "Here's our fingerprint" or something 
> to validate a cert -- that would prevent old owner certs from working. (So 
> why isn't this done?)
> 
> And I cannot find any good reason for expiring root certs. They explicitly 
> have much longer lifespans than anything else, and this isn't the first time 
> that root certs have gone poof.
> 
> Off the list topic now. Thanks for  your help.
> 
> On 2021-10-02, at 8:32 PM, Ryan Schmidt <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2021, at 22:06, Michael wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, first, I want to say "Thank you" for this bit:
>>> 
>>>> • From View menu select "Show Expired Certificates"
>>> 
>>> In keychain access, I could not see the expired certs, and was thinking 
>>> that they were just deleted for being old. Once I could find the old ones, 
>>> I could turn them back on.
>>> 
>>> The second thing is that for whatever reason, I could not download and 
>>> install the new cert into keychain access. But ... oddly, Firefox 52 ESR 
>>> had that cert installed (even that old ...???). I could export from 
>>> firefox, and import THAT into keychain access, and at least enable that for 
>>> my account.
>>> 
>>> So, ... well, not perfect. These certs are marked as trusted for *my 
>>> account*. Not for the system. So predictably, some things done by the 
>>> system in the background will fail, but at least Chrome and Firefox both 
>>> now work fine. (Safari isn't tested, but ... well, Safari isn't tested :=-).
>>> 
>>> ====
>>> 
>>> I have a much better question, that's outside of the scope of this list or 
>>> even the site(s) in question.
>>> 
>>> Why does a signature expire?
>>> 
>>> If I have something that was signed by a cert, and it was signed in a valid 
>>> time time stamp, why does that signature ever expire?
>>> 
>>> I've come across programs that have an expired signature, and I can't see a 
>>> good reason for it.
>>> 
>>> And if  there's no good way to tell when something was actually signed 
>>> (because a timestamp can be forged), then the question becomes, why does a 
>>> cert expire as a function of time? Why not allow a cert to be "until 
>>> revoked"? 
>>> 
>>> For that matter, why is "valid/not valid" not under the control of the 
>>> system? Why is someone else allowed to say that my system is no longer 
>>> valid?
>>> 
>>> I figure that there's a good answer to these questions somewhere, but I 
>>> have no clue where to even begin looking. And yes, I know that quantum 
>>> factoring will eventually permit all of these certs to be forged, but until 
>>> then, why not allow them, and even after that point, why not allow me to 
>>> allow them?
>> 
>> I'm not an expert on this stuff, just sharing what I learned about the issue 
>> yesterday, but you can ask your search engine questions like "why do 
>> certificates expire" or more specifically in this case "why do root ca 
>> certificates expire".
>> 
>> My understanding is that the reason why Let's Encrypt recommends sites 
>> continue to serve the ISRG Root X1 certificate that is signed by the expired 
>> DST Root CA X3 certificate is that at least old browsers like those on old 
>> Android phones should consider a web site's certificate to be valid, as long 
>> as we are within its validity dates, even if the root certificate it's 
>> signed by is expired. Like I said, I'm not an expert, I don't know why it 
>> would be that way, and evidently it's not that way on some Apple devices, so 
>> server administrators now have to choose between Let's Encrypt's default 
>> which supports old Android devices or the other way which supports old Apple 
>> devices.
>> 
>> 
> 
> ---
> Entertaining minecraft videos
> http://YouTube.com/keybounce
> 

Reply via email to