The way to break away from MSAA is far simpler than one would think. A developer can switch to iAccessible2 (an API made by IBM for Windows) which is a superset of MSAA so they can migrate without throwing away usable code. On Sep 8, 2009, at 6:21 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
> > I'm not a programmer, but I'll hazard a guess that maybe the issue now > is that MSAA has become such a heavily used facility for windows-based > screen readers, that now it would take an amazing amount of work to > break away from that. So, it in other words in for a penny in for a > pound. > On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote: > >> >> Hey Chris, it's interesting that you mention the whole off screen >> model, actually I'm amazed that voice over does as well as it does >> without one, I wonder if windows screen readers will ever be able to >> move away from this approach, I think the only screen reader that >> does >> not have one is NVDA, and from what I've heard, it's fairly limited. >> On Sep 7, 2009, at 9:09 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Probably because I was once a VP at Freedom Scientific, I see the >>> value in and strongly support adding scripting to VO. >>> >>> I agree that using scripts to launch applications from within a >>> screen >>> reader should be discouraged and I agree that some other things you >>> mention in your email should be avoided as there are other >>> techniques >>> to get the same job. >>> >>> The fear that "VO will turn into JAWS for Macintosh," is mostly >>> unfounded though. The reason JAWS needs scripts for virtually every >>> application it supports is that they have an OSM and, given relative >>> screen coordinates can tease the text drawn directly without MSAA or >>> iAccessible2 involved. This helps make the completely inaccessible >>> into something that is marginally and sometimes very accessible. >>> >>> VO has no OSM. Even with the new scripting facility, it cannot >>> correct the owner drawn interfaces (I've been trying to get VO and >>> MacSpeech Dictate to talk and its a hemorrhoid of a project). What >>> AppleScript gives us is the ability to add features to a combination >>> of programs where the authors did a decent job of making their >>> software accessible but the user would benefit from some very deep >>> contextual information that would be very difficult for a generic >>> API >>> to deliver. >>> >>> I read a post (I think on this list) about reading table headers in >>> the iWork spreadsheet. the post said it works great if the headers >>> are on the top row but starts to fail if they are elsewhere. >>> >>> So, why not write a script that allows multiple tables, each with >>> their own headings to exist in a single spreadsheet? No API is >>> smart >>> enough to do this but, I would think that a script driven >>> communication system between VO and the worksheet could do it in a >>> fairly straight forward manner. This script could also "mangle" the >>> worksheet file name in a manner that is unique so, if you reload the >>> same document, your headers will be there for you. Even cooler, if >>> you open a spreadsheet with a very similar name (Sales Report >>> 1/1/2009, Sales Report 2/1/2009, etc.) they will probably have the >>> same format and the user can be offered the opportunity to load last >>> month's headers. >>> >>> There are lots of ideas that can be expressed in scripts that a >>> generic screen reader cannot understand. >>> >>> Happy Curt Flood Day, >>> cdh >>> On Sep 7, 2009, at 8:52 AM, Jes Smith wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi all. >>>> >>>> I am greatly concerned that voice over now has support for >>>> scripting. >>>> Especially now that you can make voice over launch an application >>>> with >>>> a single script. I'm not talking about glancing at the time or >>>> seeing >>>> how many unread messages you have in mail. I'm talking about >>>> opening >>>> up apps like mail or Safari from within Voice OVer. I am concerned >>>> that voice over is starting to become a bit like Jaws, and that if >>>> we >>>> don't get a grip on it now, voice over will become Jaws for >>>> Macintosh. >>>> I, like Mike Arrigo, don't feel that launching apps is something >>>> that >>>> should be implemented in a screen reader. Also, I fear that the use >>>> of >>>> apple scripts will replace the responsibility of an application >>>> developer to make their application accessible right out of the >>>> box. >>>> On the Windows side, if something isn't accessible with Jaws, you >>>> just >>>> download scripts for it. What if you go to another person's >>>> computer >>>> and they don't have the scripts for the app you are trying to use? >>>> It's my belief that a certain article from the NFB prompted this >>>> scripting support. Folks, the thing I like about voice over is that >>>> it >>>> gives the blind user the same conceptual layout and information as >>>> it >>>> appears on the screen to a sighted user. No other screen reader >>>> does >>>> this, and we should keep voice over as a screen reader, and let it >>>> be. >>>> If we don't, eventually, when we try and contact an Apple >>>> developer, >>>> they will either ignore us, or will say, "Well, just download the >>>> scripts for my application and you will have access." >>>> Any thoughts? If someone disagrees with me, I'd love to hear your >>>> arguments, not so that I can persuade you to agree with me, but so >>>> that I can have a new perspective. >>>> >>>> Jes >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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