John, have any of your clients noticed/suffered the VoiceOver lag that is being reported on this list?
On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:06 AM, John Panarese <[email protected]> wrote: > Well said, Cheryl. I have no idea what the person is talking about > below. Yosemite went through a rigorous and fairly lengthy testing process. > Yosemite is working fine with every client I work with and with friends, > blind and sighted alike. Compared to the first release of Mavericks, > Yosemite is running quite well. Yes, iTunes has changed, but change is not > necessarily bad. Take some time to try to figure things out and explore. > > Lastly, please do not make unfounded and assumption based accusations > about Apple when one has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. > There is nothing wrong with voicing opinions, but there is also a logical, > common sense line one should use when stating opinions on a public list. > > > > Take Care > > John D. Panarese > Director > Mac for the Blind > Tel, (631) 724-4479 > Email, [email protected] > Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com > > APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain > Lion > > AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE > > MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT > > > > >> On Oct 19, 2014, at 4:26 PM, Cheryl Homiak <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> While I would always support people freely expressing their opinions, I see >> some problems with the content of this letter. Because you have submitted >> this to this email list, while I will never write anything insulting or >> derogatory of anybody here, I do think it is appropriate to express my >> concerns about what was written in the same place where you have posted your >> opinions. This is by no means a personal critique, confrontation, or in any >> way flaming. I do not know the writer and would write the same things if my >> best friend had written this. >> >> First of all, unless you participated in the developer beta or the public >> beta, this seems to me to be a little hasty. The OS has been out only since >> Thursday afternoon so you haven't had much time to work with it or get help >> from others. Of course bugs and problems should be pointed out immediately, >> but it would seem to me that one should work with a new system for a while >> before coming to the conclusions you have come to in your email to >> Accessibility. As I recall, you were expressing these views very soon after >> the upgrade was released. Even if you did participate in one of the betas, I >> would think that you would hold off on such a strong negative response since >> you can see from the list traffic that some people - blind and visually >> impaired people - are adapting to the new OS and even enjoying it. >> >> Secondly, what has been written doesn't appear to be wholly factual and >> accurate to me. Yes, the sidebar in iTunes is gone but some people are >> finding their music just fine. You don't like the change; maybe there are >> changes I don't like. But "it isn't accessible" and "I don't like it" or "I >> can't figure this out" are not synonymous. There have been several posts >> where people explained how to work with iTunes without the sidebar and while >> some of this specifically talked about Windows, this is also true on the >> Mac. The same can be said for spotlight. I am not saying there might not be >> any limitations or problems but I am searching and finding, within my own >> computer and outside. Just went to Wikipedia to read about Christopher >> Columbus for instance. Even the subject line isn't really descriptive of >> what is being written. "Voice commands" does not immediately make me think >> of voiceover or access for blind people in particular. >> >> Thirdly, the explanations given do not contain concrete replicable details. >> You don't mention what various methods you have tried to employ to find your >> music in iTunes or to search with spotlight in light of the changes and then >> described what happens when you try these strategies. There is nothing here >> for anybody in accessibility to really take hold of and run with except for >> your citation of the website with the list of bugs. >> >> Fourthly, you bring up trust. I would leave the issue of trust to my >> relationships with close friends and God; I do not trust companies, nor do I >> distrust them. I evaluate what they are doing related to what I need and use >> or don't use the services and products accordingly. >> >> Fifthly, the lack of substantial facts and replicable description is >> accompanied by a great amount of angry accusation and emotionally-based >> claims that cannot be proven. How do any of us know what those who developed >> this OS were thinking? How do you know we all got slapped in the face? You >> certainly are not reflecting my view when you write this though certainly >> there are probably others who would agree with you. I understand that you >> feel that the input of those blind people who participated in betas, which >> were both developer and public betas, was not valued on the same level as >> reports of other testers about issues other than voiceover, but even if it >> could be concretely proven that that is actually true, it is my experience >> that if people will not listen to careful and thorough critiques you will >> not win their willing attention and cooperation by angry denunciations >> either. It works as a vent and all of us have done that at times and I would >> have no right to say it should never be done, but I'm not so sure it works >> to promote change. >> >> You don't like Yosemite; possibly a lot of people, blind and sighted, don't >> like it. On the other hand, a lot of people, blind and sighted, are >> downloading and installing it and finding it can be successfully used and >> are liking it for the most part. Of course, we would all like a bug-free >> environment. We should all express our opinions to each other and Apple and >> choose other alternatives if what we have is no longer meeting our needs. >> State your opinions freely and openly; even express your anger and >> frustration as you see fit. But please don't confuse your opinions and likes >> and dislikes with the larger issue of whether the OS is accessible or not >> for blind people: at least not while some blind people are successfully >> using and enjoying it. Your opinion of Apple and your judgment as to how >> usable the OS is for you and your decision as to whether or not you want to >> try to work with it are not one and the same as the larger issue of whether >> the OS is accessible for blind people or not. I can know that something is >> accessible and that others are using it and can decide that I myself don't >> like it, don't want to use it, and can declare that I personally find it >> lacking, but this does not necessarily mean that it is inaccessible. Usually >> we can not claim that anything is fully accessible for blind people; there >> are definitely some products and services that we know are totally >> inaccessible for us; I would say that Mac OS in general and Yosemite in >> particular is largely accessible with some caveats and issues. Whether each >> person likes or dislikes the form that the accessibility takes is a separate >> discussion, in my opinion is worthy of discussion, but is a very individual >> matter. >> >> >> -- >> Cheryl >> >> I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf. >> I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper >> thrown in the trash! >> Then God gave me a new heart and life: >> His joy for my despairing tears! >> And now, every day: >> "This I call to mind, >> and therefore I have hope: >> The steadfast love of the Lord >> never ceases; >> his mercies never come to an end; >> they are new every morning; >> great is your faithfulness." >> (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV) >> >> >> >> >>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:28 AM, Pamela Francis <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Apple has so much broken this OS. I have no idea why they would think of >>> releasing it without having paid more attention to what they were doing. >>> I wrote this to the accessibility email address, even though it may not be >>> totally their fault, I can't believe they don't have some input into what >>> goes into their new OS. >>> >>> Hello, >>> I am extremely disappointed with the lack of attention paid to >>> accessibility in your latest OS10 release. >>> You overhauled the look of your software, while not thinking of those of us >>> who have grown to trust you with our accessibility needs. >>> I know many visually impaired beta testers, most under NDA with you per >>> each release of both desktop & IOS software. >>> I realize we are a minority in the big picture of your customer base. >>> However, if one has paid money to participate in your testers program & is >>> paid lipservice to what is reported, what good are the testers? Has the >>> quality control suffered because the upgrades are now free? >>> Aren't we as a disability community owed a description of what we can >>> expect in terms we understand? It looks pretty, but acts very much like >>> something from a crackerjack box. >>> I can't get to my music in Itunes because the views I have become used to >>> have disappeared. There is no more sidebar. >>> In spotlight search, which is supposed to search for references outside my >>> Mac, I hear either the words button or image in the search results. >>> How is this useful to me or anyone who would try to use it with no vision? >>> As I stated earlier, there are those who have been under NDA to attempt to >>> alert you of the issues before release. Those same people had enough >>> respect for their contracts to not divulge issues that may concern the rest >>> of us. However, in return we all got slapped in the face. >>> There is a site that gathers bugs, along with other content. >>> In case you are interested go to www.applevis.com >>> As has been shown, I doubt any of this will be taken to heart. >>> I can only hope. >>> My next computer, if I need one will be a Windows machine. They are >>> cheaper, maybe a little buggy, yet I know what I am getting. >>> Premium prices should reflect premium quality in every sense of the word. >>> Pamela Francis >>> >>> Pam Francis >>> >>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Alex Hall <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> It's now called Dictation Commands, and is coupled with Dictation. Enable >>> it in accessibility preferences, and use it by pressing the same command >>> you'd use to start dictation (press that key once more to stop). The >>> problem is that VoiceOver is muted during all dictation, which now includes >>> issuing commands, so even if a command works, you get no spoken feedback. >>>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Faisal <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> did they completely do away with voice commands on Yosemite? My key >>>> trigger no longer works and I couldn't find it in system preferences. >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Have a great day, >>> Alex Hall >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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