Hi Chris, A couple of comments on your posts. Chris Blouch wrote:
> I wonder how accessible Delicious Library is. It supposedly will > catalog all your CDs and DVDs by waving the barcode in front of an > iSight camera. Neat idea if it works: > > http://delicious-monster.com/ > > CB Originally Delicious Library was set up to use the external iSight cameras that were sold separately to read bar codes. (This was before any of the Intel Macs with embedded iSight cameras.) Those iSight cameras were cylinders about the size of the cardboard tube of a roll of toilet paper -- similar in diameter but maybe an inch longer -- and they were held onto laptops and computer monitor screens with clip mounts. They had built-in internal mics with noise suppression, and the camera was 640 x 480 pixel VGA resolution, which was not too bad in comparison with digital cameras at the time they were introduced in 2003. But because they had an auto-focus mechanism and other automatic compensation features that could be built into the device with the longer tube design (much like regular commercial cameras), they worked much better than the new built-in iSight cameras did for bar code scanning. It was much more difficult for (sighted) users to get good results by holding up bar codes to the built-in iSight cameras, even with improved software algorithms, and Delicious Library finally recommended that people buy hand-held USB barcode scanners to use instead. In your earlier post you (CB) wrote: "KNFB runs in the Nokia N82 which has a 5 megapixel camera while the iPhone 3GS is just 3 megapixels. Not sure how much the megapixels mater but for OCR more is probably better. If you figure even a relatively low res flatbed scanner will do 300 dpi, that means an 8x10 image will be 2400x3000 pixels or 7.2 megapixels so the Nokia is already a compromise." This is a reasonable way to get an estimate, but it's only applicable if the camera of the iPhone 3GS is covering an 8x10 image. There's an iPhone case made by Griffin Technology called the Clarifi (spelled with an "i" at the end) that includes a built-in close-up lens that can be flipped over the iPhone camera. With the magnifier lens flipped on, a number of (sighted) individuals report success with iPhone OCR apps that did not work well without the lens. However, there was a very informative followup post to this topic by David Chittenden on the VIPhone list, where he points out that the additional issues for the visually impaired is knowing exactly where to point your camera and also holding it steady (your earlier reference to "waving the barcode in front of an iSight camera" is one of the problems in how blind users try to use these apps). I'll excerpt my post and David's reply on the VIPhone list: <begin excerpt> Esther wrote: > > Hi, > > There are a couple of different issues here on OCR for iPhone apps. > First, there is the point that Victor brings up about the hardware of > the camera. I don't have an iPhone, so I can't experiment with the > camera. However, I wonder whether anyone has tried out OCR apps while > using Griffin Technology's Clarifi iPhone case: > > http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/clarifi > > This protective iPhone case includes a built-in close-up lens for the > iPhone 3G. There are several reviews of the case (2-piece, simple to > slide on; you can access the dock connector easily to plug in a cable, > but you may need to slide off the bottom of the case if you want to > seat this into a dock) and also of the lens operation, which everyone > seems to agree gives better. Most of these articles show this off > with images, and there is generally a comment like "this worked better > than I expected". One quantitative measurement of better performance > is simply this: a number of people who used Evernote, which is a > cross- > platform productivity app (as well as being available as a program for > the Mac) for note-taking, organizing, etc. said that they could use > the function of taking a picture and having the app OCR text with the > Griffin Clarifi case while they couldn't do this without it. > > This is not meant to say there will be automatic success with this > case, because there are some comments about making sure that the lens > is snapped in place when it's being used and that you don't have your > finger blocking it. Also, this is not meant to point to Evernote as > an OCR app -- it's not optimized for this and you have to know where > to point the camera, and crop extraneous information away. The main > point here is that there are ways to enhance the iPhone camera > performance with the simple purchase of a case that lists for $35 and > gets pretty good reviews on its other points as a simple case. > > The second point to raise is that not all OCR apps are alike in their > effectiveness. The recent RedLaser app for barcode scanning from > Occipital and others like the FoodScanner app from Daily Burn that > uses the RedLaser SDK gained recent prominence for the improved > accuracy of their barcode scanning recognition technology. There are > many things that a good app could do in software to improve OCR, all > the way from the basic algorithms that are used to simply using a > setting that tries to adjust for poor or low light level when a user > holds a camera too close to the object they're scanning. One list > member mentioned ocrNow! whose free (ocrNow! Lite) version of the app > has a reviewer's comment (that is one of the positive ones): > > <begin quote> > Performance is as good as can be expected with a blurry image taken in > low lighting conditions using cell phone camera. Don't try to > photograph the entire page: three megapixels is not enough resolution > to make it work. Instead, zoom in on a smaller portion of the page and > OCR it in sections. > <end quote> > > This suggests to me that the regular app does not try to compensate > for lighting level in the software, and simply sends the picture to > the ABBY OCR app. I wonder what would happen if this was used with > the Clarifi case? I'd still be more inclined to try apps based on the > RedLaser SDK as a better test of what the iPhone plus apps is capable > of in this area. > > If Ryan does further exploration in this area, I'd really like to hear > his comments about OCR and barcode apps, since he's done a lot of > experimentation with programs and the effectiveness of different > scanning devices on the Mac.) I'm following this topic with some > interest, but I can't actively experiment since the iPod Touch does > not have a built-in camera. (Rather, it has the ability to take screen > captures shots, but not to take pictures with a camera.) > > Cheers, > > Esther David Chittenden wrote: Hello, Ok, for a sighted person, a 3MP camera, like that in the iPhone, is plenty for taking very good pictures of pages which can easily be OCR. The problem, and it has been tested by a few companies, is that blind people are not able to line up the image, or typically keep the camera still enough when taking the picture. This is why the KNFB reader requires a 5 MP camera with the Xenon flash and the light polerizer to highlight the text for the OCR engine even with the jitter (blurring) which is introduced by the slight shake in the typical blind person's hand when taking the picture. With the newer Nokia N86's 8MP camera, the flash and polerizer are no longer necessary because there is enough information gathered by the 8MP to get past the jitter. If the blind person is able to either 1) hold the camera completely still during the taking of the picture (sighted people are able to do this because they can see the image in the screen, make the proper adjustments, and click the picture when the visual feedback tells them it is clear / still), or 2) use some sort of tripod / stand which anchors the camera, thereby stabolizing it so the picture is clear. If either of these occurs, the OCR can easily convert the text if it descues (rotates the image to exact 90 degrees from the slight angle) so it can properly OCR the image. Note: the testing which I am familiar with was accomplished using an HTC 8925 'Tilt' Pocket PC phone with a 3 MP camera, two years ago after an OCR package was released for the Pocket PC platform. The OCR engine works fine for sighted people, and is the same OCR engione which is being used in the KNFB reader. If anyone wants to port it to the Apple iPhone platform, let me know and I can give you the information on where to acquire the OCR SDK. I do not know what the current cost is for the SDK, but I do know that the company requires a per unit payment once the app is developed. David Chittenden, MS, CRC, MRCAA <end excerpt> HTH. Not sure how to best follow/summarize the thread discussion of this post in the two groups, but thought you guys would be interested in this. Cheers, Esther > > > Nicolai Svendsen wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Pertaining to the barcode feature. If no one has mentioned this, I >> know it can at least read barcodes for coupons, meaning that, if >> you walk into a store, find the barcode for the coupon or whatever >> on the iPhone, the cashier can simply scan the screen. I heard it >> mentioned in the Assistive Technology Show, so more can probably be >> done with that. >> >> As for the announcing of streets and so on, don't we have Navagon >> or however you spell that thing? I heard they released a new >> version of it which announced street names and such. Again, I have >> only heard about this. I don't actually know, and sadly I can't >> test it. This is just hearsay, but figured I'd post this anyway in >> case someone can actually shed some light on this. I'd be curious >> to know. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: [email protected] >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook: Profile >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/chojiro >> >> On Oct 12, 2009, at 4:56 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: >> >>> Not sure the camera really does the OCR function. That's probably >>> software after the photo is taken. That said, KNFB runs in the >>> Nokia N82 which has a 5 megapixel camera while the iPhone 3GS is >>> just 3 megapixels. Not sure how much the megapixels mater but for >>> OCR more is probably better. If you figure even a relatively low >>> res flatbed scanner will do 300 dpi, that means an 8x10 image will >>> be 2400x3000 pixels or 7.2 megapixels so the Nokia is already a >>> compromise. None of this has to do with the OCR software being >>> able to run on the iPhone CPU. The OCR software isn't going to do >>> a very good job if the quality of the image it has to work with is >>> low. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> Rich Ring wrote: >>>> >>>> The camera on the iPhone is not powerful enough to do O/CR. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Ryan Dour >>>> To: MacVisionaries >>>> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 3:49 PM >>>> Subject: iPhone like KNFB? >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> What apps could be added to an iPhone at this point to provide >>>> similar functionality to a KNFB phone? The key featuresthat could >>>> help are: >>>> >>>> * OCR of documents, signs, product boxes, etc. >>>> * Talking pedestrian directions such as "You are approaching the >>>> corner of North Michigan Avenue and East Heron." When you get to >>>> the corner, "Turn right." and in a few more feet "Continue to the >>>> next corner, St. Claire and E Heron." >>>> * Color detection, providing reasonably good color matching or >>>> description. >>>> * Barcode reader with the ability to detect the barcode anywhere >>>> in the picture frame, not just across a red line on the screen >>>> that makes use difficult when you're only sure of the general >>>> location of the code. Ability to pair with external BlueTooth >>>> barcode scanner as an alternative could be sweet. >>>> * Talking compass, something very similar to the built-in >>>> feature, but with names of directions quickly spoken. >>>> >>>> Here's the great part, some of the apps exist, but don't offer >>>> full functionality. >>>> >>>> * A Voice Compass - Literally a talking compass with great >>>> accuracy. It even cuts itself off if you turn it really fast, >>>> listen to the directions in an audio blur if you so choose. >>>> * Around Me - Great for POI, but that's where the fun ends. Also, >>>> great for getting phone numbers to places quickly. >>>> * Maps - Great for finding out where you are, and general >>>> directions. However, no warnings about distance as you move. >>>> >>>> I've found apps that offer functionality beyond the typical >>>> blindness offerings that make life just sweet. For me, local apps >>>> can be fantastic: >>>> >>>> * CTA Tracker - Easily the most accessible CTA tracking app. If >>>> you live in Chicago, this app provides complete details of busses >>>> at your local bus stops. Find a bus, wait for it to pull up and >>>> announce itself, then track your way to your destination with >>>> time estimates. Simply awesome for commuting. If you leave the VO >>>> cursor on the next stop in the list, and turn Auto Lock off, VO >>>> will announce the stop the bus is approaching once a minute. Turn >>>> on your iPod, and let VO be the Dj telling you where you're at as >>>> you travel without having to keep one ear open for the bus PA >>>> system. >>>> * Chipotle - Order some yummy food while you're on your way home. >>>> You can put together your order, choose toppings, sides, and a >>>> drink. You can then place a note on the order to let the great >>>> staff know you're blind, and to look out for ya when you get >>>> there. It has been a really amazing experience using this app. My >>>> reason, sometimes the restaurant is so loud that the staff start >>>> simply pointing at the toppings and looking for feedback from the >>>> customer. When you try and explain that you're blind, they don't >>>> speak up enough, or it really throws them off and they start >>>> missing toppings. Using this app, you get exactly what you wanted >>>> without the confusion of the Chipotle assembly line. Even better, >>>> your credit card never comes out of your wallet. >>>> >>>> I've got many other apps, but these are some that I've used in >>>> the last few days. They provide me with tools that enrich my >>>> life. There are others out there I know I'm missing, as the app >>>> store is the hottest most crowded marketplace for software I've >>>> ever seen. If anyone else has ideas for apps that make the iPhone >>>> specifically a brilliant tool for a blind user, please let us all >>>> know. Beyond the Twitter and Facebook apps we all love, I'm >>>> looking for apps that help enhance real life activities happening >>>> in the real world. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Ryan Dour >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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