A very interesting read. He is also correct, there is a larger question (and even as smart as I am, I failed to think about that too). Because of this, I have been considering the use of a PGP like encryption program to sign emails (and even encrypt them if need be). Even though I have nothing to hide, I would still use security like this because of its increased security. If the hackers can't get in easily, they will move on to easier targets (unless you encounter one really anal retentive).
-eric On Feb 20, 2016, at 6:31 PM, Sarai Bucciarelli wrote: > Check this out. > https://securosis.com/blog/do-we-have-a-right-to-security?utm_content=buffer296f3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer >> On Feb 20, 2016, at 5:09 PM, Terje Strømberg <terjestrmb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Ok, thanks for the information. If FBI takes the case upp to supreme court >> and wins, do apple still have a owners right to decide? Its still their >> legal product. >> >> Take care >> >> 20. feb. 2016 kl. 22:56 skrev Tyler Thompson <tktpianostud...@gmail.com>: >> >> It’s a pipe dream. Without going into crazy technical detail you’re talking >> about either bypassing or giving up their cryptographic private key, the >> moment you do that it’s all over, for 1 device or for a million devices. >> Unlike, say, a firewall where you can open a port to 1 specific device based >> on MAC address, let it get it’s information then close it off again. This is >> a different concept. >> >> >>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote: >>> >>> hmmm. good points. >>> now, I am not a crypto specialist. I am a basic IT/security tech. my thing >>> is firewalls, intrusion detection and disinfection >>> >>> There has to be a way where apple doesn't have to give up security and >>> still allow the FBI access to that one device (without compromising all >>> others). Is this possible or am I smoking a real pipe dream here? >>> >>> -eric >>> >>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:41 PM, Tyler Thompson wrote: >>> >>>> So I feel it’s about time to throw in my 2 cents here. I’m a Certified >>>> Ethical Hacker and I’ve got qualifications and certifications in regards >>>> to cryptography, steganography and cyber security. I don’t bring this up >>>> to brag but instead to outline that I’m speaking from a place of >>>> experience. In this letter to us, the customers Tim Cook does a decent job >>>> of outlining the issue. >>>> >>>> I can say with 100% certainty that by creating access to a single phone >>>> apple will significantly reduce it’s ability to protect your data, and, >>>> what’s worse they’ll give that access to the FBI. There’s no such thing as >>>> a backdoor into 1 device. One of the most potent security measures, and >>>> one that Apple has implemented is to ensure that nobody again nobody has >>>> access to secured data, including Apple themselves. When I’m contracted >>>> out to build secure apps or websites I do the same thing, for example, >>>> once a password has been created for a user I do not, and cannot ever gain >>>> access to that users account. >>>> >>>> In order to build a “backdoor” you have to build it into the operating >>>> system. This means every iOS operating system would become vulnerable to >>>> both malicious hackers and our government. But let me give it to you in an >>>> analogy: Imagine that the iPhone is your home. Now imagine that your home >>>> is in a bad neighborhood and is a high-profile home. So the FBI comes >>>> along and asks you to please smash out one of your own windows in broad >>>> daylight. When you say it lowers the security of your home the answer is >>>> “Well it’s ok, thieves in the area don’t know which window you smashed >>>> out.” >>>> >>>> I’ve been a very avid Apple fan for years now, I love their accessibility, >>>> I love their products but knowing about cyber security I can guarantee you >>>> right now that if they build this backdoor I will immediately stop using >>>> apple products. >>>> >>>> You want one even scarier? Think about a backdoor to an operating system >>>> that houses your credit card info for Apple Pay. That’s not enough for >>>> you? What about your keychain? You know, the one where you store all your >>>> passwords for things like your bank account. >>>> >>>> We can say “Surely you can just do it this once” all we want to but I’m >>>> here to tell you there’s no such thing. Once you’ve lowered your security >>>> it’s done and the product will never be as secure again. >>>> >>>> Tyler K. Thompson >>>> >>>> -Software Engineer >>>> >>>>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 1:22 PM, Eric Oyen <eric.o...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ok, >>>>> the way I see it, apple can come up with a method to access the device. >>>>> Hell, if the fingerprints of the terrorists are still available, and that >>>>> were the only method of encryption, then the FBI already has its problem >>>>> solved. If, however, there was a secondary method (like a passcode) used, >>>>> then it becomes a lot harder to get into the device. Note: I did not say >>>>> impossible. >>>>> >>>>> Now, apple can develop a method by which they can access the phone. they >>>>> aren't required to publish it nor to provide it to law enforcement. all >>>>> they need to do is provide a technician who knows the method (and has the >>>>> program). since that program will not be turned over to the FBI, there is >>>>> essentially no problem. Apple would retain custody of the program and the >>>>> method and law enforcement would have to follow the law (file a warrant, >>>>> etc.). At this point, there would be no back door to exploit To further >>>>> secure it, I would props that the program be placed on a specialized (and >>>>> isolated) device. THis device cannot be plugged into any network and >>>>> would also require the use of a password (only known to apple) to work. >>>>> >>>>> does this sound like a decent proposal? >>>>> >>>>> -eric >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 19, 2016, at 4:34 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I agree, >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not just terrorist that this will effect it's all IOS device users. >>>>>> >>>>>> A back door access to one device is a back door to all devices of that >>>>>> type. >>>>>> >>>>>> Iargree >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of George Cham >>>>>> Sent: Friday, 19 February 2016 9:21 PM >>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable search >>>>>> >>>>>> That's a good point about the fingerprint. But my question is this >>>>>> doesn't make apple an accessory to terrorism if they don't cooperate >>>>>> with the FBI? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> George, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 19 Feb 2016, at 6:53 PM, Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apart from that point where if your phone battery dies and you need to >>>>>>> use the pin code to open it for the first time >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Or did they even have finguerprints setup on the devices. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 19 February 2016 8:11 AM >>>>>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Any comments on Apple's position against unreasonable >>>>>>> search >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Karen, you raise a really really good question. Why don’t they just >>>>>>> use the fingerprint of the phone owner. He’s dead anyway so you don’t >>>>>>> have to worry about his specific rights, he’s dead.:) Couldn’t they >>>>>>> lift a print or even a finger and just use that? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now I really smell a rat since they had the body and had a means in. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Feb 18, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Not only is Apple 100% correct here, the FBI is not using other doors, >>>>>>>> such as the fingerprints of those involved. >>>>>>>> A master key like the one the FBI desires seeing created is simply >>>>>>>> unwise to develop. Hackers have anoth leeway, and no one should have >>>>>>>> their privacy compromised in this fashion. >>>>>>>> After all consider how often the government has themselves been >>>>>>>> hacked, not only could this key be abused by the government, it could >>>>>>>> be stolen by others. Just my take, Karen >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2016, Scott Granados wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Wonder if anyone else is following Tim Cook’s position against being >>>>>>>>> forced to cripple the security on iPhones. Anyone have any comments? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>>> Cara Quinn - 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you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > Sarai D. Bucciarelli www.linkedin.com/in/SaraiDBucciarelli > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
