This should be moved to the bs list... Getting government agencies or the non-profits with whom they contract to provide such services in the US is really a hard problem to solve in the current economic climate.
First off, a lot of people in the consumer services side of these organizations have been laid off so we can buy bombs for use in Afghanistan and support the Israeli military machine. Thus, there are a lot fewer trainers out there than just a few years ago. Most, if not all of these trainers know JAWS and ZoomText very well and, in some of the wealthier areas, they know Window-Eyes and MAGic as well. These agencies and NGO have already invested a lot of money in training their trainers and are reticent to spend their scarce dollars on training for another system like Macintosh that is, in their minds, unproven. Some states require that these agencies provide consumers with a choice but accept that having JAWS and Window-Eyes is an actual choice. Those who, for one reason or another, select Window-Eyes will probably get substandard training as the JAWS juggernaut is nearly unbreakable. These programs are as "socialist" as those in Europe. In the US, we can buy a Macintosh with our own scratch which, for many, is a real burden and may not be possible. When you add that a local Lighthouse will help them get a decent Windows machine and give them JAWS at no cost to the consumer which will make choosing a Macintosh and paying out of pocket a lot less attractive. Until the funding improves again, the roadblocks of shrinking training dollars and a system that has virtually no one to actually evaluate the alternatives will remain broken. So much for private enterprise... cdh PS: Do not take my comments and think I am a socialist - I believe that government can do things where the market fails and proprietary access technology is sold in a vacuum that is almost entirely non-competitive means that private enterprise has failed and, in order to provide people with disabilities any chance of participating in the proverbial quest for the American Dream, the government needs to be involved. So, I believe that the free market usually functions very well but in certain areas it hasn't enough capital to lubricate the system so it has fallen into an FS monopoly. According to a recent study, JAWS has over 70% of the users and Window-Eyes (number 2 in the study) has about 11% with all others, including Mac, splitting up the rest. I can go on forever about the nasty business practices, litigation rather than innovation and other maneuvers that FS uses to increase its stranglehold on this market but I've said it so many times that I'm starting to bore myself. On Nov 28, 2009, at 11:28 PM, Jake wrote: > Hi Scott > Although I agree with you completely, I'd argue that this situation > exists in the US as well. Has anyone successfully gotten the > government to buy them a Mac? I've never heard of a case, and the > reasons given are similar and some are even open about dealing > exclusively with one company or another. Ours, too, is a socialist > program gone wrong. > I'm actually curious now, has anyone gotten a Mac from any sort of > government agency and if so, what country? > In either case, though, let one thing be clear. You always have > choices, and you've the power to make them. I got my Mac because I > purchased it. Yes, I had to save up for a bit to do it, but it was > well worth it. You always have that option no matter what your > government decides to provide for you. So a ban on blind people > getting a Mac does not exist. Maybe if enough exercise their power of > choice we might counter the FUD spread by these blind companies. Come > to think of it, that's the only way I can think to counter it. > The sad thing is that these types of lobbies are all too successful > when they crop up, because most people will listen to anything as long > as the person speaking it acts like they know what they're talking > about. Marketing hype, in other words, and it's a very good way to get > at those in governments who know absolutely nothing about blindness or > access technology of any kind. That's why we do need to exercise our > freedom of choice. No one knows what product is better for a person > than the person in that situation. > > > > On Nov 28, 6:52 pm, Scott Howell <scottn3...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Well there ya go, a socialist program run totally amuck. If your going to >> get something for nothing, your going to be strapped with someone's idea of >> what you can and can't have. Yep, quite unfair, but obviously some screen >> reading developers are afraid of the Mac's ability. Well I'm sure my >> comments won't set well with some, but it is what it is and I'm glad I can >> make my own choices. >> On Nov 28, 2009, at 8:29 PM, anouk radix wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hello, I got this message from a friend (Paul Erkens) who will join the >>> forum soon (his status is pending now). I am not really up to scratch with >>> the general regime in belgium of giving access technology to blind people. >>> I am just afraid that this will spread to the Netherlands. >>> Here I know htat high school and university students that are blind can get >>> a laptop, a screenreader and a braille display from the state. You dont >>> have to pay for anything in this scenario. In this case clearly getting a >>> mac with infovox voices and a braille display would be the cheapest >>> scenario but if the screenreader manufacturers start a lobby here as well... >>> Once again I am not sure how it all works out in Belgium. >>> Greetings, Anouk >>> On Nov 29, 2009, at 2:07 AM, Buddy Brannan wrote: >> >>>> So what's the problem here? Does the government (or insurance) routinely >>>> buy computers for blind people, or just the screen reader? If the former, >>>> I can see why this is a problem, but if the latter, the good news is that >>>> any Mac comes with built-in access anyway, not requiring any extra access >>>> add-ons. >>>> -- >>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA >>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY >> >>>> On Nov 28, 2009, at 7:50 PM, anouk radix wrote: >> >>>>> Hello, A friend of mine told me this morning htat in Belgium windows >>>>> screenreader companies have won a lobby that effectively bans blind >>>>> people in belgium from getting a mac from their insurance (or the >>>>> government). Because the screenreader people say it is unusable. >>>>> I think this is a very sad state of affairs indeed and I hope this wont >>>>> happen in other countries as well. >>>>> Greetings, Anouk >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group >>>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >>>> -- >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group >>>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >>> -- >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group >>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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