Hi,

Technically, this is called Macvisionaries. Which would seem to me as if this 
is a Mac list where visually impaired people can discuss things about the Mac, 
not necessarily VoiceOver. 

Furthermore, the manual probably provides information on what you've already 
asked where the iPhone is concerned. I definitely don't try to shove it down 
people's throat, because if they don't have a need to switch or aren't 
frustrated enough with their current operating system, that's great. More power 
to you. I personally would never go back to the Windows due to my frequent 
crashes, but that's my opinion and only mine. I'm not forcing people to think 
that the Mac is so much better, because the fact is that operating systems have 
different advantages and disadvantages when comparing them. Frankly, I don't 
even agree to compare operating systems. An operating system is its own system, 
and it works differently than what you might be used to. No one should, at any 
point, expect their old operating system to behave like the new one simply 
because they have gotten used to the way their previous system performed. It's 
just like the situation with the iPhone. The iPhone or the Macintosh is not the 
perfect solution for everyone, nor is any operating system. Some are happy with 
paying manufacturers for screen access technology and software maintenance 
agreements, and that's great. If it works well for you, why switch? Though the 
Mac has a powerful screen reader which surpasses the commercially available 
screen readers in my opinion, what you already own might work well for you. In 
this case, there is certainly no need to switch to another operating system or 
phone just to save money. I'm only really mentioning the Mac because this is 
the Macvisionaries after all.

Regards,
Nic

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On Dec 11, 2009, at 12:15 AM, Mark Gilland wrote:

> Guies, let's get back to voiceover, I don't frankly wanna hear how one 
> person made their wife bitch about x y and zed, nor would! make 'em do such. 
> I know yhou're kidding but, come on, I'll admit I got a bit off topic with 
> the IPhone stuff and IPod stuff, but, that was only cause I didn't know 
> where else to turn, being I didn't know another list, but that is why I 
> asked.  I don't wanna start a war flame here, but really guies come on.  I 
> think this was a really interesting thread at first, and being I'm notta 
> mod, whom I! to say it needs to die, I'm not saying to stop it, that's not 
> my decision, however, don't you think, excuse me for saying: that this is 
> beingging to really stray from voice over and go more to an argument.  Face 
> it, if a person likes the Mac and is useful with it? fine, if not, then 
> don't rave to 'em about it.  You can educate them on why you like it, but if 
> they don't wanna hear it, then dammit? they don't wanna hear it.  Same other 
> way vice versa.  Sorry, maybe I'm just in a real fowel mooed tonight, but 
> this is immature in my opinion.  It's one thing to try to educate someone on 
> the other OS, but donj't force it down their throat.  Not saying you are, 
> but, just... I dono... just... don't.  OK?
> Really anooied,
> 
> Mark.
> 
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