What's the cost with Better net please David?
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2017 8:56 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: VPN questions I use BetterNet and VPN Unlimited. BetterNet has better accessibility with iOS VoiceOver. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: [email protected] Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 11/04/2017, at 04:33, E.T. <[email protected]> wrote: > > Eric is the only one who provided a reasonable answer. I still would like > to see what others use for VPN services. > > From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . > "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, > all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off > and say God did it." --Carl Sagan > E-mail: [email protected] > >> On 4/10/2017 9:23 AM, Scott Granados wrote: >> Actually didn’t morph as much as you think. Simon is wanting to have a >> private connection back to his work. In fact, his solution is a good one >> geography willing. I used the same thing in Florida an antenna on a tower >> back to the office. Since WiFi has a strong cryptographic feature set it’s >> not that different at all. >> >>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 10:36 AM, E.T. <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Interesting how this VPN thread morphed into something totally unrelated >>> and totally unhelpful. >>> >>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, >>> all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind >>> off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan >>> E-mail: [email protected] >>> >>>> On 4/10/2017 3:09 AM, Simon Fogarty wrote: >>>> Yeah they told me I could get my network at work, Haven't yet been >>>> able to do that, not sure why as maxed out the settings to try and >>>> reach the office which is only 1.5 Km in a straight line, >>>> >>>> And the antenna is on the side of the house as couldn't put a post >>>> in without upsetting the neighbours or council by laws, >>>> >>>> I do wonder if the houses and multistory buildings between my place >>>> and the office might be the signal issue, >>>> >>>> Problem is I've been told I'm not allowed to knock them over so >>>> that leaves putting the antenna on the neighbours end of the >>>> property by the street, >>>> >>>> >>>> Guess I'll keep trying, >>>> >>>> They told me this gear would do what I wanted and other uses had >>>> got 24 Km distance from the radio and directional antenna over >>>> rural property. b >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scott >>>> Granados >>>> Sent: Monday, 10 April 2017 10:00 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: VPN questions >>>> >>>> Simon, I’ve gotten 50 miles point to point with Ubiquiti gear.;) >>>> >>>> Here’s another pointer though, I found a place to get 25 watt 2.4 and 5 >>>> GHZ bidirectional amplifiers / preamps. I’m thinking 100 foot mast, omni >>>> directional antenna fed by a LComm 25 watt Amplifier with a WiFi radio set >>>> with 20/40 hz coexistence mode disabled so you blanket the frequencies >>>> nicely. >>>> >>>> With Ubiquiti gear though unmodified on towers I was able to get >>>> signals and a decent lock from Port Saint Lucie Florida down to >>>> Palm City. Regular 802.11N >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 5:41 AM, Simon Fogarty <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> And if your like me and want to P off the neighbourhood, Get an >>>>> omnidirectional antenna and an outdoor wifi radio unit and boost >>>>> the power up to 75% max and start it up, >>>>> >>>>> Ubiquity rocket M2 and 15DBl antenna I have seem to ensure I'm >>>>> connected to my network even when I'm 100M down the street, >>>>> >>>>> Can't say what the neighbours see, but my networks always at the top of >>>>> my list. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scott >>>>> Granados >>>>> Sent: Monday, 10 April 2017 12:25 PM >>>>> To: MacVisionaries 'Chris Blouch' via >>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: VPN questions >>>>> >>>>> So if you hide from your neighbors then your router can’t avoid your >>>>> networks around you’s interference nearly as effectively. >>>>> >>>>> If everybody is broadcasting then there are scheduling systems that kick >>>>> in that avoid collisions. If every body isn’t then you’ll slam in to >>>>> their network traffic and it can degrade performance. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 6:54 PM, E.T. <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting discussion. Much food for thought. I will study the VPN site >>>>>> you suggested. >>>>>> >>>>>> One thing you mentioned to Jonathan was that you disabled SSID in your >>>>>> router. How does that affect your Wifi network. Can your devices still >>>>>> see the network? I certainly would not mind hiding from the neighbors. >>>>>> >>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>>>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the >>>>>> world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn >>>>>> your mind off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan >>>>>> E-mail: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/9/2017 1:35 PM, Eric Oyen wrote: >>>>>>> not a problem. there are other reasons to use a VPN. However, 2 >>>>>>> things I do when using google: >>>>>>> 1. I am not signed in >>>>>>> 2. I always use a VPN when searching. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, of late, I have been having some trust issues with my current ISP. >>>>>>> It seems that they sent me a notice of copyright infringement >>>>>>> about a shared file. only problem, I was not sharing anything. >>>>>>> So, I had to do a full blown security audit of my machines and >>>>>>> network. I did, eventually, found where the issue was (the >>>>>>> Lingsys router I have here had a security vulnerability that >>>>>>> couldn't be easily closed. As a result, one of my neighbors was >>>>>>> using it to share files. so, even though I had the thing >>>>>>> password protected, it was still using a number of items that >>>>>>> made breaking the password trivially easy with the right >>>>>>> software. I finally managed to get a handle on the situation by >>>>>>> turning off the PIN the device had, turning off SSID broadcast >>>>>>> and engaging MAC filtering. I still can't completely trust the device, >>>>>>> so I use a VPN pretty much all the time now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am looking to upgrade the hardware though. A kit from >>>>>>> Routerboard that I can install an image of OpenBSD on would make >>>>>>> things a lot better here. THere are optional add-ons like WiFi >>>>>>> B/G/A/N, a bridged set of LAN ports, an all weather housing, >>>>>>> etc. Once that is done and installed, I can install the VPN >>>>>>> package for OpenBSD on there, set it up to handle that and not >>>>>>> worry too much. Then, if I want to be ultra secure, I would continue to >>>>>>> use a VPN tunnel from my machine, thus doubling the protection. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now, as to why I would want to use a VPN for other than just security? >>>>>>> It's simple. there are some programs hosted on the web that >>>>>>> might be regionally restricted (like sports events). So, I would >>>>>>> want to be able to listen legally and not be caught up in a blackout >>>>>>> zone. >>>>>>> Thus, VPN allows me to place my end point elsewhere (like NYC, >>>>>>> Sanfransisco, Detroit, Dallas, or even a foreign country). A VPN >>>>>>> also gets around what my ISP does when I am viewing something >>>>>>> like Hulu or Netflix (they try to lower the QoS for video >>>>>>> streaming on content that directly competes with their cable >>>>>>> programming). With a VPN, they can't see the type of traffic, >>>>>>> so they can't change its priority. They have yet to start doing so on >>>>>>> encrypted tunnels. >>>>>>> Besides, I am paying for a specific level of service and I hate >>>>>>> it when the ISP decides that my traffic needs to be shaped. I >>>>>>> don't have video here, so I expect full service. btw, I have >>>>>>> already filed a number of complaints over this issue with both the FCC >>>>>>> and the FTC. >>>>>>> each time, my service gets maxed out for a few months and then they >>>>>>> start the games again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now, I am paying for 50 megabit/second service here and when the >>>>>>> VPN is active, I can still get 40 through. Thats not bad, all >>>>>>> things considered. Since I started using the VPN a year ago, the >>>>>>> bandwidth shaping games have pretty much stopped. However, >>>>>>> lately, I have been catching RST packets being sent from 2 hops >>>>>>> upstream from me. That causes the VPN to drop and I have to >>>>>>> reconnect. looks like its time to complain again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> anyway, thats a lot of how and why I use one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it more secure? yes. >>>>>>> is it absolutely secure? not a chance! A very determined hacker >>>>>>> will still be able to break it, but its enormously more >>>>>>> difficult. He'll just simply move on to an easier target. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -eric >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 9:55 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Eric, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I just want to correct one thing. The elimination of the ISP >>>>>>>> can't collect traffic rule here in the US essentially does not >>>>>>>> change anything. Congress can not actually shutdown entire >>>>>>>> rules without Agency changes unless they are brand new rules. >>>>>>>> The privacy rules were I believe supposed to go into effect in >>>>>>>> June, and don't forget even if those rules had gone into effect >>>>>>>> Google would still be collecting and selling your data. In >>>>>>>> fact, be wary of any free or very inexpensive internet based >>>>>>>> service, software does not just get created out of thin air, >>>>>>>> companies pay good money for developers, and disk space costs >>>>>>>> something too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In fact one reason, congress did not like the new FCC rules was >>>>>>>> that they only provided a that no equivalent protections of >>>>>>>> privacy could be leveraged by the FCC over search engines, >>>>>>>> since the FCC only regulates the pipes and the FTC would regulate >>>>>>>> other internet services. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please forgive any specific inaccuracies in this post, I am >>>>>>>> going off of materials I read in tidbits.com >>>>>>>> <http://tidbits.com/> and severalpodcasts that I listened to over a >>>>>>>> week ago. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jonathan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 12:31 PM, Eric Oyen <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> well, >>>>>>>>> depending on whether you use a free or paid service will make >>>>>>>>> a difference in both service quality and setup. I use a paid >>>>>>>>> service myself. It's $7 a month and is fairly reliable. I have >>>>>>>>> tried some free services, but they are mostly hit and miss and >>>>>>>>> are not always as secure. the service I use is located here: >>>>>>>>> www.privateinternetaccess.com >>>>>>>>> <http://www.privateinternetaccess.com/> >>>>>>>>> and they have both client software or you can setup manually. >>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, their cliente for the mac is not accessible, so >>>>>>>>> I use a manual setup in the preferences pane. It works >>>>>>>>> reasonably well. I have also done the manual setup in windows >>>>>>>>> 7. This has allowed me to be able to have dropbox and a few >>>>>>>>> other services when I am behind a firewall (like over at Voc >>>>>>>>> rehab) THeir IT folks have gotten on my case more than once, >>>>>>>>> until I pointed out to them that their own policy does not >>>>>>>>> forbid the use of a vpn (it does, however, forbid the use of >>>>>>>>> sharing services that are unprotected on their networks). I >>>>>>>>> even had one of them try to break into my machine (at my >>>>>>>>> request) and they found it well nigh impossible. I had the >>>>>>>>> firewall on that win 7 box setup so that only traffic on the >>>>>>>>> VPN was allowed in or out and everything else got dropped. That took >>>>>>>>> a lot of heavy customization on my part to make it work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> so, if you want to run a VPN, which these days is pretty much >>>>>>>>> going to be a must now that ISP's aren't required to keep your >>>>>>>>> info private, it is highly recommended.. btw, a lot of the >>>>>>>>> free vpn services are not all that bandwidth friendly. thats >>>>>>>>> why I use the service I do. they can support up to 20 >>>>>>>>> Mbits/sec. for what I do, thats a must have. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -eric >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 9, 2017, at 9:17 AM, E.T. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The recent discussion about VPN got me interested but I was >>>>>>>>>> not ready to look into it at the time. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I know the setup is done in Network prefs but where does one >>>>>>>>>> get information on VPN servers etc.? Thanks. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . . >>>>>>>>>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the >>>>>>>>>> world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply >>>>>>>>>> turn your mind off and say God did it." --Carl Sagan >>>>>>>>>> E-mail: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>>>>>> Mac Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of >>>>>>>>>> this list, or if you feel that a member's post is >>>>>>>>>> inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >>>>>>>>>> directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can >>>>>>>>>> reach mark at: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> and your >>>>>>>>>> owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>>>>> Mac Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of >>>>>>>>> this list, or if you feel that a member's post is >>>>>>>>> inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly >>>>>>>>> rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can >>>>>>>>> reach mark at: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> and your >>>>>>>>> owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>>>> Mac Visionaries list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this >>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, >>>>>>>> please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting >>>>>>>> on the list itself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can >>>>>>>> reach mark >>>>>>>> at: [email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> and your >>>>>>>> owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>>> Mac Visionaries list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this >>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, >>>>>>> please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on >>>>>>> the list itself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can >>>>>>> reach mark >>>>>>> at: [email protected] and your owner is >>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can >>>>>> reach mark at: [email protected] and >>>>>> your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>> mark at: [email protected] and your owner >>>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>> mark at: [email protected] and your owner >>>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>> mark at: [email protected] and your owner >>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>> mark at: [email protected] and your owner >>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > mark at: [email protected] and your owner is > Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: [email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: [email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
