Tim,

Thank you. I’ll try using 2 fingers and see what the results/difference is. 
Funny you mention direct touch since every time I use the Amazon Prime app it 
tells me that it “requires” direct touch in order to work. 

Eileen

From: Tim Kilburn 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 1:37 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Hi, 

A couple of items to bring forward here with respect to the Siri Remote and the 
Bluetooth keyboard operation.  First, for both devices, it is important to 
consider the rotor control.  When the rotor is set to certain items, navigation 
by both the remote and the Bluetooth keyboard is sometimes less than intuitive. 
 What I've found is that it is often advisable to change the rotor to a 
different item such as "Words", "Navigation" or "Explore".  Also, consider that 
Direct Touch can really make things difficult if you're not accustomed to it 
and will make things skip around if you're not careful.  Second, there are a 
few gestures such as swiping up with two fingers to repeat hits that you may 
find useful.  Yes, the touch-screen is rather small, but practice usually makes 
your life easier.

Later...


Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada 

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:17, Eileen Scrivani <etscriv...@verizon.net> wrote:

Hi Kara,

I’m new to Apple TV having purchased 2 4K’s back in December. While I can get 
it to do some of the things I’d like, I’m less than thrilled with accessibility 
on them. The touch screen is a pain to deal with. I have learned that  swiping 
to fast or at least what the touch pad interprets as to fast sends the focus 
rapidly skipping over options. I’m not a large person with large hands so it 
has nothing to do with the size of my fingers – the screen is super tiny and I 
think the smallest motion sends it flying.

I also think the device is just not clear enough in annunciating sufficient 
information to assist a blind user in what needs to be done to operate it and 
get the expected results. I’m not using the devices to the extent I wanted to 
and feel a bit, just a bit, defeated in having bought them.

Perhaps those are only my issues being very new to using Apple TV. However, I 
have had problems just getting apps to download install and set-up.
For my taste, Voice Over doesn’t announce enough descriptive information as to 
what fields should be filled in. For instance it wants a password, well which 
one? If it would be clearer in stating if it is looking for my Apple ID 
password, or the password to something else I’ve signed up for and am now down 
loading and trying to install the app.
That would help enormously in filling in edit fields. The typing mechanism is 
for the birds on the Apple TV remote, at least I can use my IPhone for typing.

Eileen

From: Cara Quinn 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 12:23 PM
To: 'Adrian Leong' via MacVisionaries 
Subject: Re: What use do you find from your Apple TV?

Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple TV 
4th Gen.

In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the 
accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down.

There are three main areas where I find this to be true most.

The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / 
disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find 
that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual 
triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to leave 
the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home screen.

I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. I 
have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both remotes 
work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV 4th Gen with 
VO apparently.

secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be 
absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might be 
using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know that 
this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the touch pad on 
the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had many complaints 
from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if you go and read 
reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost every single review 
is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t agree more. This is actually 
the worst Apple interface I have ever used by far.

Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support has 
suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the accessibility team 
has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth keyboard with VO on the 
Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a Mac.

Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in this 
regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard with an 
Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four directions 
on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, the arrows do 
not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot move straight down 
on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is a huge problem in that 
it is not only more cumbersome to get where you need to go, but there are 
actually some cases where you cannot get there at all using the keyboard. You 
actually need to stop trying to navigate with the keyboard and use the remote 
to move the cursor.

Now, if this were a design issue across the board for both sighted and blind 
users, I would simply question Apple’s UX design choice. -However, this is not 
across the board. This is purely an accessibility design issue. If you turn off 
Voiceover, the bluetooth keyboard goes back to working as it always has, with 
the arrow keys working normally.

If you then turn on Voiceover, the keyboard stops working as it should and goes 
back to performing as I have been mentioning above.

So, instead of actually assisting blind users in having an easier and more 
enjoyable experience with the Apple TV, now it is actually made worse and more 
difficult in several situations.

I am curious to hear others’ experiences / opinions on these issues. Have you 
seen them? What do you think?

Thanks so much and hope you have a great day!

Cheers!

Cara
---
iOS design and development - LookTel.com
---
View my Online Portfolio at:

http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn

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On Mar 13, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth GEN 
is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have the 
third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s accessibility 
was  fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is the very definition 
of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the third GEN to the fourth GEN 
and I don’t find accessibility to be find at all. In fact, it’s kind of clunky 
in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN has its advantages especially with the 
Siri remote, but I kind of prefer the third GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I 
just had to chime in because you really blew my mind with that statement.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote:
> 
>  I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I can 
> access all of my content that is in  the iTunes library very easily. 
> Sometimes I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use 
> even more of it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall 
> short.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
>> Hi all
>> I’ve been thinking to get a Apple TV for a while and now a friend is selling 
>> his 4K HDR, a 64 GB one at a pretty good price.
>> I have no previous experience with Apple TV, so my question, what do you 
>> blind voiceover users use your Apple TV’s for?
>> Do you play games, do you listen to music, do you use video streaming 
>> services like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime?
>> Is apps like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime Video even accessible with 
>> Voiceover, those are the 3 apps I mainly stream video from.
>> Basically, will I get any joy from a Apple TV or will I only buy it for the 
>> rest of the family?
>> Nickus
> 
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