Dear Janina, thank you very much for this informative email. I shall certainly follow your advice. Depending on the future finances, and when I can go back to work after coronavirus, I may consider purchasing a newer machine to run linux on.
This laptop, I have finally remembered, is Dell Inspiron 640. This is what I’ve achieved since I last spoke to you, having now dubiously obtained leisure. :). I had downloaded latest Debian distro from debian.org <http://debian.org/>. Having read up on it, I managed to activate orca at the beginning of installation and having then connected the Dell via ethernet, I had accomplished the installation. There’s obviously something wrong with the wifi hardware driver, so I have given it up for now and you’ve just confirmed for me not to bother. I have been learning Orca, and trying to navigate round the system as it is with some success. I’ve launched Firefox ESR, realized i had no mail client on the system yet, found out a little about Orca customization. I will follow your advice though and will explore tarch.org <http://tarch.org/>, one of the websites which I had already visited while researching Linux accessibility. I do hope the blinux list members are tolerant of newbees. :) By the way, if I were able to afford a new machine/laptop for Linux, what would you suggest as minimum for future learning and solid running of Linux? Thanks again, Janina Andrew > On 27 Mar 2020, at 05:54, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > <[email protected]> wrote: > > OK, Andrew, I understand your situation. I'll give you my advice. But, > as you've undoubtedly already learned, advice is cheap and various > people will be passionate about their views. > > So, let me give you a first things first approach as my top suggestion. > Keep it simple, and keep the main thing the main thing. Linux is a "some > assembly" required kind of environment. If you break it, you get to keep > both pieces. > > So, forget vmware or any other virtualization. Not because they're > unworthy, they're perfect for their task, but they're complicating > factors that will only frustrate you. After you have experience and some > knowledge, you can always go back there. But learning linux management > under some vm isn't the next thing, it's getting a unfctioning linux in > the first place. I can't stress this point enough. > > That seems to leave us with a 13 year old laptop. Forget about running > Orca or any graphical Linux desktop on 13 year old hardware. It ain't > happening--not with your level of Linux skills (no offense intended). > > Could I, with my decades of Linux experience get an accessible desktop > working on that machine? Maybe, but not very likely. So, a word to the > wise, and all that. > > You can expect to run the text console environment, though, and that's > where the real power and attractiveness of Linux resides, actually. Yes, > Orca is cool and leads in some compelling feature developments. But, Mac > and Windows are far more accessible, imo. > > So, if you're uninterested in learning bash (or zsh) console based > computing, you probably want another project. > > However, if you're still on board, take heart. You have options, and you > should be able to make Linux talk and drive your braille display with > multiple console instances on each boot that you can readily switch > among. > > Now, getting an installation becomes the problem. At this point I again > remind you to keep it simple. Forget wifi. You configure that once the > machine is booting reliably, not as a condition of installation. Plan to > connect an ethernet cable where you can avoid driver issues. The main > thing, remember? > > Forget Fedora. It's a powerful Linux distribution and it powers my Linux > vps. I'm sending you this email via my Fedora server in the cloud. But > the installation isn't accessible, so forget it. It just came off your > list--and never mind that someone on some list said they figured out how > to install Fedora with Orca. That ain't you. We're keeping it simple and > keeping the main thing the main thing, right? > > Fedora is wonderful to use, but you can't use it if you can't install it > in our current scenario, so you're going to forget it--at least for now. > > Debian is good. It has a cadre of true believers that wouldn't have > anything else. Only criticism with Debian is that it's arguably too > conversative, i.e. what you get tends to be older, more user tested > versions of kernels and applications. I do believe it's installation > remains quite accessible, though I don't know the particulars. I'd > google for that info, and also see my additional resources item below. > > Arch is what I run on my personal machines. There's an accessible Arch > installer here: > > https://tarch.org/ > > Note there's a fundamental philosophical distinction between Linux > distros like Fedora and Debian which "snapshot" into releases from time > to time on the one hand, and distros like Arch which never have releases > but rather practice rolling updates day by day and hour by hour on the > other hand. > > You can also forget vinux and sonar. As you've discovered, they're dead. > There are newer replacements both actively maintained and in process of > development with varying stages of maturity. I have no direct > experience, so I won't say anything more than to note that the community > continues to spin up distributions of Linux aimed at making the process > easier for newbies. Years ago, I was personally involved in such a > project myself. > > Lastly, you need to be on the lists with people who focus on Linux as > blind users. Chief of these is the blinux list: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > Note you can find additional resources on the Tarch page noted above. > > Remember, you're offering up 13-year old hardware for your Linux, so > your goal is console only. In that environment you'll have Speakup > and/or Fenrir for screen readers, and brltty for your braille display. > Those will be your main choices whether you go Debian, Arch, or > something else. > > And, you'll be using these either on bash or zsh sells. > > Or, you may decide to learn emacs and emacspeak--but that's yet another > kettle of fish that comes well after getting a function, accessible > system working. > > Good luck! > > Best, > > Janina > > > > 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes: >> Hello, >> >> A few years ago I had a go at trying to learn Linux but I failed and gave it >> up. I never quite parted with the idea of ever returning to it. So firstly >> I’d like to find out what distro I could most reliably install in VMWare >> Fusion or on an old Del laptop from 2007 I think, and whether I could >> accomplish it without sighted help. I’ve been doing a lot of research on it >> over the last few days given I have lost my work due to coronavirus and am >> having to stay at home. When researching the accessibility of Linux, some >> say Fedora is better, others recommend Vinux or Sonar but both Vinux and >> Sonar have folded and have not been updated although some pages are still on >> the web. Debian is supposed to be accessible and I tried the last distro >> but while I was able to start the installation after having burnt the .iso >> to cd with sighted help, the installation failed because I was unable to >> connect it to my wifi: Linux wasn’t finding the name of my wifi at home - >> something wrong maybe with drivers , goodness knows. Debian is supposed to >> have Orca and Braille support. So yes, if I could successfully install and >> run a Linux distro with orca and Braille, I’d like to have a go at learning >> Linux. It’s a tantalizing prospect given linux reputation for stability and >> safety. But I’m rather inexperienced in terminal or command line so maybe I >> will fail again. Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained. So if I could >> find out a bit on which distro might be best for me, and perhaps some >> contacts off the list to ask question, or even if a proficient linux user >> who’s blind has the time and would be willing at some point to give paid >> tutorials on Linux, I’d certainly feel more secure in this venture. Linux >> requires a whole new vocabulary whose terms I’m trying to understand. >> >> Andrew >>> On 26 Mar 2020, at 06:33, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Several of us on this list are long time Linux users. What are you >>> looking for? >>> >>> 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries writes: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Does anybody on the list use Linux successfully either in virtual >>>> environment or on a separate computer? Please email off list if you >>>> wouldn’t mind sharing your experiences. >>>> >>>> Andrew >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>> at: [email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/835345A5-3831-43E5-8E75-26F6CB95258D%40me.com. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Janina Sajka >>> >>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>> >>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> [email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200326063332.GE2161%40rednote.net. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >> [email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/38661F63-4E5B-40E4-9346-5DA572E2FDC6%40me.com. > > -- > > Janina Sajka > > Linux Foundation Fellow > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > [email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/20200327055430.GH2161%40rednote.net. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: [email protected] and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/29225440-B4F2-44BD-A327-D2F2DE64178C%40me.com.
