Let's find out what happens when the European Accessibility Act starts to take effect, later this decade. It might speed up the process of improvement.
It will also be interesting to observe what accessibility enhancements Apple developers make over the next few years. Voice Control was a major advance introduced last year. On 4/11/20, 05:51, "Simon A Fogarty" <[email protected] on behalf of [email protected]> wrote: Jason, Not to mention it's not a top priority for these companys to make the accessibility fully functional and there for as much as we complain about the bugs, We don't celebrate the great products that we are given to work with. -----Original Message----- From: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, 11 April 2020 3:21 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Operating system accessibility (was RE: Ios 13.4.1) The short answer in my view is that, in general, the people who develop screen readers, support for accessibility within operating systems, and support for accessibility in at least some applications are hard-working, knowledgeable, and strive to get it right. Unfortunately, whether they work for multinational corporations or for small organizations, they tend to be under-resourced. Too many software developers writing applications and application components don't know how to implement accessibility support well - or don't give it sufficient priority. The result is that there are too many bugs and rough edges, and this won't change until there are stronger policies in place requiring higher quality, as well as more software developers working on accessibility issues effectively. I don't think for a moment that this situation is acceptable. I think it's a policy issue, not a technical one, ultimately. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Karen Lewellen Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:17 PM To: 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1 Jason, You raise an issue that frankly baffles me. why is it not possible for an individual to choose a single operating system and have their needs met from an accessibility standpoint? why is it an acceptable situation to need multiple devices in various systems to complete tasks. It certainly was not always the case. I can respect having a laptop or desktop and also a phone or tablet, but those should work in harmony with each other if that makes sense. and the accessibility should be consistent on those devices regardless of program being used. I have no idea where the concept of creating a single program to manage a single task then incorporating accessibility in came from, perhaps the windows arena. Still as someone pointed out earlier in this thread Google believes that controlling punctuation should not be something a user can do on the Android platform. Yet text to speech is not a screen reader, with google failing to understand this a major concern. as you note, most of the individuals meeting with accessibility will not have the technological ability to figure things out..so will simply believe access is an impossibility in general. However such complacency about what access is expected to do in part started with the population benefiting from that access, not demanding that a screen reader tool work uniformly across the board much the way in theory the physical functions the adaptive tool enhances work in the human body. Kare Who frankly wonders on average how many machines an individual using adaptive technology owns? On Thu, 9 Apr 2020, 'Jason White' via MacVisionaries wrote: > I haven’t updated to iOS 13.4.1 yet, but I plan to do it soon. Based on what I’ve read, I don’t expect any changes that will affect me or other VoiceOver users significantly. > > > > Every modern operating system has accessibility bugs, unfortunately. That’s why I sometimes have to switch operating systems just to get work done. For example, I’ve switched from Windows to Mac to complete a task in the last week or two due to accessibility issues on the Windows  side. Fortunately, the laptop with Windows installed and the MacBook Pro are on the same desk, so it’s really easy to move from one to the other. Of course, I really shouldn’t have to move between two computers just to do my work properly, but that’s how it is at the moment. This isn’t the place to discuss application and screen reader crashes on Windows, or accessibility regressions there either, or having to switch between Windows screen readers to work around bugs. In my experience, the Mac has had its share of accessibility problems as well, and I’ve been using it since 2014. Some applications are more accessible under Windows than under Mac OS, and vice versa. > > > > I have Windows 10, Mac OS, Linux and iOS here, so I believe I can make > fair comparisons. As it stands, I think the practical advice is to > have multiple operating systems available and to switch between them, > as the task requires, to work around accessibility problems. I should > be able to choose two operating systems – one for a laptop/desktop > and the other for mobile, and use those exclusively, but I don’t > envisage that being effective from an accessibility perspective for me > within the short term or even the medium term. It just isn’t > workable, given the quality problems across multiple platforms. iOS is > adequate for my mobile needs, but the desktop/laptop situation is more > complex – and that’s where I’m doing most of the work, and > therefore where I notice the problems more. Everyone’s situation is > different, of course, and, as usual, the people with less technical > knowledge will be > > The most disadvantaged when they run into accessibility problems – on whichever platform they’re using. It’s the same everywhere. > > > > From: Macvisionaries <[email protected]> on behalf of > joseph hodge > > <[email protected]> > Reply-To: Macvisionaries <[email protected]> > Date: Thursday, April 9, 2020 at 16:38 > To: Macvisionaries <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Ios 13.4.1 > > > > You are free to go to a OS and device that meats your needs then. You gave no reasoning to why your fed up or why Apple doesn’t care. > > > > I find bugs the new text editing boxes where there isn’t edit boxes for one but every OS has bugs we have to deal with. Android for one still can’t read all punctuation which should be on every screen reader as an option. I left Apple for a bit and came back some times we have to evaluate things and see how they are. Hope you find what your looking for. > > > > Joe > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On Apr 9, 2020, at 4:31 PM, 'Tim Kilburn' via MacVisionaries <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > What specifically has given you the impression that Apple is not focusing on accessibility? > > > > Later... > > > > > Tim Kilburn > > Jamf Certified Tech > > Apple Teacher > > (with Swift Playgrounds Recognition) > > Fort McMurray, AB Canada > > > > On Apr 9, 2020, at 14:29, 'Andrew Lamanche' via MacVisionaries <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I’m getting fed up with Apple non-responsiveness to accessibility issues & have begun the process of going back to Windows. & Jaws. I’m so disappointed. > > > On 8 Apr 2020, at 08:16, Anders Holmberg <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi! > I just updated to iOS 13.4.1. > SO far i haven’t notice any bugfixes for Vo. > /A > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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