Hi. The iPhone OS, now just called iOS, uses a windowing toolkit that is based on Cocoa, but isn't the same. The class names are different, and parts of the classes themselves are different. Beyond that, the layout of the interfaces of an iOS application isn't very much like a desktop application. So, for RenaissanceX to work on Cocoa Touch, the tag engine and auto-layout engine will need to be reworked.
It isn't that I don't believe that something like RenaissanceX can be created for iOS. I originally thought that RenaissanceX could support either Cocoa or Cocoa Touch from the same framework. However, I now think that a completely separate system will be required. That's too bad. RenaissanceX is focused at blind devs on the Mac, but it stems from Renaissance, a larger cross-platform effort to abstractly describe interfaces for programs so that they can be run on all OpenStep type operating systems. Because of that, RenaissanceX can pool its development with people that are interested in the larger Renaissance project. Forking will create another project that it will be all on me to maintain. Renaissance gets little development help, even given its wide community. So far, only one other person has been able to assist me with RenaissanceX development, and that was by contributing sample projects. People just don't have much time to give to free projects. If I fork, I believe that I'll be all by myself when it comes to the actual programming. Further, Apple might not even allow RenaissanceX on iOS. The developer agreement in iOS 4 has been revised in such a way that might prohibit it. I think that the changes are primarily targeted at keeping people from using Flash cross-compiling tools, but it still applies to what we'd like to do. In short, the new section 3.31 says that applications aren't allowed to call Cocoa Touch APIs indirectly (through a framework or translation layer). RenaissanceX works by sub-classing Cocoa objects in order to add the automatic layout behavior. I don't think that this sort of issue is what Apple has in mind, but I can't tell you how profoundly angry and frustrated I'll feel if I port RenaissanceX, and Apple starts rejecting apps for using it. There are only 3 ways to make a user interface on iOS: use Interface Builder (inaccessible), do it programmatically (incredibly slow), or use a tool to build the UI programmatically through macro type functions (RenaissanceX). If they won't allow RenaissanceX, then blind devs will need to create all UIs by hand. That is practically impossible without a profound amount of effort, and vision, since VoiceOver can't tell you if your programmatically generated user interface objects overlap other controls, are obscured, etc. I doubt that I can get an official waver for RenaissanceX. So, I'll just have to put in the time, and accept that their is a high likelihood that all of the work will be for nothing. Of course, Apple could solve this problem by making an accessible way for blind people to use their official interface building tools. The word on that, though, is no interest, not at this time, etc. It's disappointing. I suppose that I'll have to try, though. Bryan -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dónal Fitzpatrick Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:06 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Programmers Editor Hi Brian, What issues are you having with the port to Iphone OS? I'm also wondering whether it might be better to hold off on a port now till after the release of the SDK for version 4.0? That's going to change our coding landscape rather considerably methinks. However, I'd love to get involved and help with any kind of port to the iPHone os. I like RenaissanceX rather a lot. Well done on a great effort. Dónal On 7 Jun 2010, at 05:47, Bryan Smart wrote: > I haven't figured out a way to start it, but VoiceOver seems to be included > with the simulator. > > Won't do you much good, though. No way to design your user interface for the > iPhone, unless you create all of the user interface objects by hand in code. > Interface Builder, where you'd normally make the interface, isn't accessible, > and my RenaissanceX project can only make desktop interfaces right now. I'd > hoped to port it to iPhone OS fairly quick, but that's taking more work than > I'd thought. Apple doesn't exactly use Cocoa on the iPhone. Cocoa Touch might > sound like a similar API, but it is quite different. > > Bryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey Jr. > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 2:49 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Programmers Editor > > how about the simulator? is it accessible yet? I really want to make an > iphone web ap for my business, but the last time i checked, the software for > creating those wasn't accessible yet. any news? thanks, Max On Jun 4, 2010, > at 12:24 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: > >> Xcode. It's completely accessible. >> >> Bryan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected] >> ] On Behalf Of Doug Lawlor >> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 1:22 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Programmers Editor >> >> Hi Bryan, >> What editor do you use for writing code on the Mac? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Doug >> >> On 2010-06-04, at 2:27 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: >> >>> No. This isn't possible. >>> >>> You can save and load VoiceOver settings, though. Look in the File >>> menu of the VoiceOver utility. I have different settings that I use >>> when programming, for example. >>> >>> Bryan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Alfredo >>> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 11:43 PM >>> To: MacVisionaries >>> Subject: Can you set application specific settings with Voice Over >>> >>> Hello all, I was reading the online Voice over tutorial from apple >>> and and kinda of questioning some aspects of the screen reader, with >>> the focus being excessive keyboard combinations as well as having to >>> arrow several times to reach some palces. But hey, it is a learning >>> experience, and I like challenges. My question is about the >>> verbosity settings. Can you apply verbosity settings on a per >>> application basis? For example I want to have my TextEdit >>> application have full attribute verbose, while I do not care if >>> there is bold or italize text on an article I am reading online. I >>> currently just have the same verbose level in all my applications, >>> although I know they can be customize for each application. >>> >>> PS >>> I have a brand new copy, unopened, latest version of the ViewPlus, >>> AudioGraphing Calculatorsoftware , for sale, its 300 US dollars at >>> their website. I am selling mine for 250. If anyone is interested >>> email me. I live in san Diego, California, USA. >>> Alfredo >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >>> . >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en >> . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
