HI Geoff. I know it's annoying the way VO reads some web stuff, but it seems
that most folks do have their needs met concerning web navigation on the
Mac. It isn't that they are out of touch with reality. IF it meets their
needs, human nature sometimes causes anyone of us to be unaware of
circumstances that might call for a different approach of doing something.

I've found that I don't like the way that VO reads the column and row
information in HTML tables, so I just turned that off in the web category in
the VO utility. VO is still a relatively new screen reader and does need
work in areas, but what they've done so far is amazing to me, even if I do
agree that their web navigation approach needs work. That's why I wrote to
them. I'm sure that with patience from the consumers VO will start to blow
all screen readers out of the water in every aspect before we know it. I
predict that in time other screen readers might even start to copy the VO
approach of doing things. For instance, this concept of having to enter
forms mode has always bugged me even if I got used to it. Even the auto
forms mode in JAWS is buggy because it sometimes makes it hard to navigate
with the arrow keys for certain auto-complete fields, not to mention that it
has a crazy way of behaving in certain configurations when one tries to exit
forms mode from edit boxes. 

I think all screen reader companies, though they compete, can and do learn
from one another even if that means simply creating a feature similar to
that in a competing product just to keep up or jump ahead of the
competition.

Tony Hernandez
http://dutyofman.net/
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His
commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every
work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether
it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14)

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Geoff Waaler
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 1:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Virtual viewer in Safari?

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the note.  Frankly it's hard to understand why so many former JFW
users claim on this list that they never look back because web navigation
(which is becoming increasingly ubiquitous in application dialogs) is
totally substandard by any objective analysis.

It was challenging, but possible to update my JawBone Jambox in MSIE.  Don't
even think about attempting this task in Safari.  The tables on
braille.wunderground.com are so much easier to navigate in Windows.  Yes
it's possible to ascertain information such as current conditions and
records, but the process is far to time consuming.  I always book flights on
Southwest or peruse my supermarket's weekly adds in Windows for the same
reason.  Up till now I suspected I was missing something obvious because the
only alternative possibility is that this list is completely populated with
coo laid drinking cheer  leaders who are totally out of touch with reality!

I will compose a note to the accessibility team, but suspect web navigation
might have been implemented much better had the former switchers afforded
themselves a modicum of objectivity rather than focusing on the price of the
screen reader (which in the case of web navigation is worth every penny we
pay for it).

Best regards.
Geoff


On May 13, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Tony Hernandez wrote:

> Hi Geoff.
> 
> I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but VO in Safari doesn't seem to
> support the functionality you're referring to. Vo doesn't navigate the
> document in the word-processor-like style you're used to in JFW. I'm a JFW
> user as well, and I lament this issue very much for the exact same reason
> you do, reading/copying code. I wrote to Apple about it and explained this
> style of web navigation and requested that they make it an option in VO in
> addition to the other methods already available. I sent the note 2 or 3
days
> ago, so we'll see what happens. I suggest you do the same. The address is
> [email protected]
> 
> Tony Hernandez
> http://dutyofman.net/
> Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His
> commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every
> work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or
whether
> it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Geoff Waaler
> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 12:17 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Virtual viewer in Safari?
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> When I read code examples from URL:
>
http://www.switchonthecode.com/tutorials/an-absolute-beginners-guide-to-ipho
> ne-development via JFW and FireFox/MSIE, the lines appear correctly in
> Jaws's virtual viewer.
> 
> When I navigate via Safari in OSX 10.6.7, however there is no easy way to
> copy/paste lines of code or even to easily discern where a line ends.  I
> tried both DOM and group modes and the reader (command-shift-r), but have
> not yet discovered a way to read lines of code as they are written.
> 
> When I use the trackpad, only the part of the line under my finger is
read.
> My VO utility setting to announce all punctuation is apparently ignored
> because characters such as the equal sign are not verbalized as I move
over
> them, but are visible to voiceOver when I use the "move right" command
> (right flick or vo-arrow).  When I interact, only part of the line is
> displayed.  I attempted to select all and copy to a file in the textEdit
> application, but the result was also unreadable.
> 
> I feel as though I must be missing something because many here are using
OSX
> exclusively to navigate the web, yet I repeatedly see examples such as the
> one illustrated above where tasks are difficult or impossible to perform
in
> Safari which can be done easily in JFW.
> 
> TIA for any/all suggestions other than my current solution of reading the
> page in JFW and manually copying lines into xCode.
> 
> Best regards.
> Geoff
> 
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