You really have to abandon your Windows mindset. I know it's difficult,
and I had to really learn this point in the beginning as well to enable me to
make significant progress with the Mac. I try to explain to people I train
that you can't sit at the Mac expecting to do things how you did in Windows and
to keep asking questions like, "I did this in JAWS or Window-Eyes. How can I
do the same thing on the Mac?" You'll find concepts that are similar, but you
have two very different aspects that you must keep firmly in mind.
1. Mac OS X is NOT aWindows of any flavor. You must learn the OS without
comparing or contrasting it to Windows.
2. VoiceOver is not JAWS or Window-Eyes. You can't learn expecting them to
work the same way.
Trust me. An open mind and a clear mind will get you further and faster
than thinking in the world of Windows.
Take Care
John Panarese
[email protected]
On Aug 19, 2011, at 8:16 PM, Alex Hall wrote:
> Perhaps, but is a hard thing not to do. I will definitely keep this in mind,
> though, and try harder to take the mac for what it is. I think I am just
> looking for ways of doing the same things I did in windows that made
> navigation easier, like dialog access keys. For instance, I am writing this
> on the mac in the mail app. Is there a command to send, or do I have to
> tab/arrow to the send buton? It is really more about efficiency, at least
> regarding this point, than a windows comparison.
> On 18 Aug 2011, at 21:31, Mik e Arrigo wrote:
>
>> Based on your questions, I do think you're comparing voiceover and the mac
>> to windows too much, and this may cause you problems. While there are some
>> similarities, the mac has its own way of doing things. For instance, on the
>> web, you mainly move element by element, it doesn't navigate line by line
>> the way windows screen readers do. You can still read an entire page by
>> pressing control option a. The main place you find shortcut keys are in
>> menus. They usually don't appear in dialog boxes. The more you use it, the
>> easier it should become for you.
>> On Aug 18, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Alex Hall wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> I was on here a few months ago asking some basic questions about vo.
>>> Now, I am proud to say, I have a Mac Mini sitting on the desk all
>>> shiny and new from Best Buy as of two nights ago. I can get around
>>> the basics, like system or vo settings, and I can do things like
>>> checking for updates, but beyond that I am stuck. Here, in no
>>> particular order, is my list of questions. Rest assured, more will be
>>> coming!
>>>
>>> 1. It seems that dialogs have access keys (on Windows, one might
>>> press alt-a to activate the "add" button, for instance), since I found
>>> that pressing s within the shutdown dialog will make the computer
>>> sleep. However, vo will not read these keys, if they exist at all, so
>>> I never know what letter will activate a button. I have found the
>>> option to use cmd+letter to move to elements starting with that
>>> letter, but that is not the same thing since developers can assign any
>>> letter to be the access key.
>>>
>>> 2. I have trouble with html content (web pages, the App Store, and so
>>> on). I can get around by arrowing from one element to another or by
>>> using the rotor, but I cannot figure out the following:
>>> a. I have enabled single-key navigation on webpages, but nothing
>>> wraps. For instance, if I am below a search edit which is the page's
>>> only input field and I press f, I am told "text field not found"
>>> instead of being taken to the field above me (at the top of the page).
>>> b. How can I just read the page? With jaws on Windows, I can arrow up
>>> and down on the page to read it like a document, which is great if I
>>> don't know what the page looks like or do not have a destination in
>>> mind. Arrowing in vo, though, seems impossible. Am I to read pages
>>> element by element only? If I go to a heading which is, say, an
>>> article title, how can I just arrow down to see what the article is,
>>> instead of reading the page from my current position? This is useful
>>> if there is a by line, a social network sharing frame, or other
>>> content after the heading but before the article.
>>>
>>> 3. How do I use the Finder? I have no idea what it is doing, and only
>>> found a file I was looking for by accident. Should I use Spotlight
>>> instead? What is the difference? Is there a third-party file and
>>> folder manager that people recommend?
>>>
>>> 4. From what I can gather, the left-hand menu is kind of like the
>>> system tray in Windows, with network information, sound, bluetooth,
>>> and the like. How do I access it?
>>>
>>> 5. When the mac starts, vo does not. I have to hit cmd-f5 to run it
>>> each time, and I am not sure how long to wait (I think I could wait a
>>> lot less time than I am). How can I fix this? I am running a usb
>>> keyboard, no mouse, and no monitor at the moment.
>>>
>>> 6. Can vo announce the time and date like most other screen readers?
>>> This is not a big deal to me, but it would be nice sometimes. I have
>>> enabled the keyboard commander, but the speech used is not my vo
>>> speech, but rather the system speech, and there is quite a delay
>>> between the keypress and the speaking.
>>>
>>> 7. Why is it that, when I go into the launcher and try to open my
>>> downloads folder, nothing happens? It should have two files in it, so
>>> I know it is not empty. I am pressing enter, space, vo-space, the up
>>> and down arrows (quick nav is on), but nothing happens.
>>>
>>> 8. Nothing ever goes onto the desktop. I am not sure how to use it
>>> or what good it is, since everything goes to the dock/launcher. I was
>>> listening to a podcast last night, and the host had somehow set things
>>> up so that his desktop had his home folder opened on it. How do I
>>> manage my desktop, and how is it different from the dock?
>>>
>>> 9. Safari: aside from the html questions, how do I do things like
>>> view bookmarks, sort bookmarks into folders, view open tabs, switch
>>> between tabs, and so on? Will vo work with Firefox? Might I be better
>>> off using that over Safari?
>>>
>>> 10. How do I get to things I download so I can open them? I have so
>>> far downloaded two programs, but I am not sure how to run either one
>>> of them. I think I ran one, but I'm not sure, and now I can't get the
>>> other to work at all.
>>>
>>> 11. Is there a way to read daisy, for free, using Alex? I know
>>> Bookshare has a program, but I don't want the voices it comes with, I
>>> just want to use Alex to read bookshare and other content.
>>>
>>> 12. I see that there are some scripts in the keyboard commander. How
>>> do I view these scripts or assign my own? I am not asking for
>>> programming help, but rather for help on how to view the contents with
>>> a mac or tell vo where to find scripts I may make in the future.
>>>
>>> 13. I am thinking about a trackpad of some kind (this is, after all,
>>> a mini, not a laptop). Would there be any advantage to the Magic
>>> Mouse over the Magic Trackpad? As I understand it, they are the same
>>> except that the mouse lets you click. Is that of any help in vo, or
>>> should I just go for the trackpad?
>>>
>>> 14. Maybe macs don't work this way, but how do I bring up the context
>>> menu for an item? For instance, I was trying to figure out how to
>>> remove icons from the dock, and I thought that if I could just
>>> right-click the icon I could select the option to remove it. How does
>>> one right-click, or does that even do the same thing as it does in
>>> Windows? Do items have contextual menus at all?
>>>
>>> 15. How can I quickly access more menus? The tutorial talked about
>>> vo-m to get to the menu bar, but that only brings me to the Apple
>>> menu. Is there a way to jump directly to edit, view, and the others?
>>>
>>> 16. I installed Ventrillo, but it just kept saying "busy" when I
>>> tried to activate any of its buttons. I couldn't shut down because
>>> Ventrillo wouldn't quit, and the force quit keystroke the mac told me
>>> to use just resulted in vo saying "busy" over and over again.
>>> Finally, for the second time today (the first while installing) I had
>>> to do a hard shutdown. How often does something like this happen, and
>>> how do you resolve it?
>>>
>>> 17. How do I quickly switch tabs? In the vo utility, for example, is
>>> there a keystroke like Windows' ctrl-tab to move from category to
>>> category, or at least from tab to tab inside a category? It seems very
>>> slow to have to keep tabbing until I wrap back to the tab selection.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any help, and sory there are so many questions!
>>> So far, this is quite a shock, having been a Windows man for all the
>>> years I have used a computer. I am hoping that, in the two weeks
>>> before I can no longer bring it back to Best Buy, I come to love the
>>> Mac... Time will tell, I suppose, but I am rather frustrated at the
>>> moment with my near inability to use the internet or app store, among
>>> other things. That said, I recently discovered the full customization
>>> and power available with commanders and activities, all much easier
>>> and (seemingly) more powerful than jaws or nvda. I also love the
>>> activity monitor - much easier to use than the resource monitor in
>>> Windows, especially the processes tab.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>>> [email protected]; http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
>>>
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