Hi All,
I promised to share this, and I am sorry it took longer than planned. I
must admit that since my dad's recent passing, I can have a hard time
getting things done.
Anyway, it totally amazing, the article, not just because of what it
reveals about Jobs, but about how he was thinking ahead. So much so that
you may laugh out loud at how correct he was...even about how long it would
take cable boxes to do very much. He even points out why it is hard for
screen reader developers to get Windows to be as flexible as the mac,
although the comment is not specific to speech.
it is all here, and a long one, but worth it.
Karen
Steve Jobs in 1994: The Rolling Stone Interview
Anne Knudsen/Liaison
The story of Apple CEO Steve Jobs is one of the most familiar in American
business -- shaggy Bob-Dylan-loving kid starts a computer company in a Silicon
Valley garage and changes the world. But like any compelling story, it has its
dark moments. Before the iPad or the iPhone, Jobs, then the head of the
short-lived NeXT Computer, sat down with Rolling Stone's Jeff Goodell. It was
1994, Jobs had long ago been booted from Apple, the internet was still the
province of geeks and academics, and the personal computer revolution looked
like it might be over. But even at one of the low points in his career, Jobs
still had confidence in the limitless potential of personal computing. Read on
to get Jobs' prescient take on PDAs and object-oriented software, as well as
his relationship with Bill Gates and why he wanted the internet in his den, but
not living room. Steve Jobs died of pancreatic cancer at the age of 56 on
October 5th, 2011.
Like other Phenomena of the '80s, Steve Jobs was supposed to be long gone by
now. After the spectacular rise of Apple, which went from a garage start-up to
a $1.4 billion company in just eight years, the Entrepreneur of the Decade (as
one magazine anointed him in 1989) tried to do it all again with a new company
called NeXT. He was going to build the next generation of the personal
computer, a machine so beautiful, so powerful, so insanely great, it would put
Apple to shame.
It didn't happen. After eight long years of struggle and after running through
some $250 million, NeXT closed down its hardware division last year and laid
off more than 200 employees. It seemed only a matter of time until the whole
thing collapsed and Jobs disappeared into hyperspace.
But it turns out that Jobs isn't as far gone as some techno-pundits thought. There are big changes
coming in software development -- and Jobs, of all people, is trying to lead the way. This time the
Holy Grail is object-oriented programming; some have compared the effect it will have on the
production of software to the effect the industrial revolution had om manufactured goods. "In
my 20 years in this industry, I have never seen a revolution as profound as this," says Jobs,
with characteristic understatement. "You can build software literally five to 10 times faster,
and that software is much more reliable, much easier to maintain and much more powerful."
This article appeared in the June 16, 1994 issue of Rolling Stone. The issue
is available in the online archive.
Of course, this being Silicon Valley, there is always a new revolution to hype. And to hear it
coming from Jobs -- Mr. Revolution himself -- is bound to raise some eyebrows. "Steve is a
little like the boy who cried wolf," says Robert Cringely, a columnist at Info World, a PC
industry newsweekly. "He has cried revolution one too many times. People still listen to him,
but now they're more skeptical." And even if object-oriented software does take off, Jobs may
very well end up a minor figure rather than the flag-waving leader of the pack he clearly sees
himself as. Whatever role Jobs ends up playing, there is no question evolutionary forces will soon
reshape the software industry. Since the Macintosh changed the world 10 years ago with its
brilliant point-and-click interface, all the big leaps in computer evolution have been on the
hardware side. Machines have gotten smaller, faster and cheaper. Software, by contrast, has gotten
bigger, more complicated and much more expensive to produce. Writing a new spreadsheet or
word-processing program these days is a tedious process, like building a skyscraper out of
toothpicks. Object-oriented programming will change that. To put it simply, it will allow gigantic,
complex programs to be assembled like Tinkertoys. Instead of starting from the ground up every
time, layering in one line of code after another, programmers will be able to use preassembled
chunks to build 80 percent of a program, thus saving an enormous amount of time and money. Because
these objects will work with a wide range of interfaces and applications, they will also eliminate
many of the compatibility problems that plague traditional software.
For now, the beneficiary of all this is corporate America, which needs powerful
custom software to help manage huge databases on its networks. Because of the
massive hardware requirements for object-oriented software, it will be years
before it becomes practical for small businesses and individual users (decent
performance out of NeXT's software on a 486/Pentium processor, for example,
requires 24 megs of RAM and 200 megs on a hard drive). Still, in the long run,
object-oriented software will vastly simplify the task of writing programs,
eventually making it accessible even to folks without degrees from MIT.
No one disputes the fact that NeXT has a leg up on this new technology. Unlike most of
its competitors, whose object-oriented software is still in the prototype stage, NEXTSTEP
(NeXT's operating system software) has been out in the real world for several years. It's
been road-tested, revised, refined, and it is, by all accounts, a solid piece of work.
Converts include McCaw Cellular, Swiss Bank and Chrysler Financial. But as the
overwhelming success of Microsoft has shown, the company with the best product doesn't
always win. For NeXT to succeed, it will have to go up against two powerhouses: Taligent,
the new partnership of Apple and IBM, and Bill Gates and his $4 billion-a-year Microsoft
steamroller. "Right now, it's a horse race between those three companies," says
Esther Dyson, a Silicon Valley marketing guru. A recent $10 million deal with Sun
Microsystems -- the workstation company that was once NeXT's arch rival -- has breathed
new life into NeXT, but it is only one step in a very long journey. Still, few dare count
NeXT out.
Today, Jobs, 39, seems eager to distance himself from his reputation as the Wunderkind of the '80s.
He wears small, round John Lennon-style glasses now, and his boyish face is hidden behind a shaggy,
Left Bank-poet beard. During our interview at the NeXT offices in Redwood City, Calif., just 20
miles north of his old Apple fiefdom, he took particular joy in bashing his old rival Bill Gates
but avoided discussing other heavyweights by name. Trademark Jobsian phrases like "insanely
great" or "the next big thing" were nowhere to be found. Friends say the Sturm und
Drang of the past few years has humbled Jobs ever so slightly; he is a devoted family man now, and
on weekends, he can often be seen Rollerblading with his wife and two kids through the streets of
Palo Alto.
"Remember, this is a guy who never believed any of the rules applied to him," one
colleague says. "Now, I think he's finally realized that he's mortal, just like the rest of
us."
It's been 10 years since the Macintosh was introduced. When you look around at
the technological landscape today, what's most surprising to you?
People say sometimes, "You work in the fastest-moving industry in the world." I
don't feel that way. I think I work in one of the slowest. It seems to take forever to
get anything done. All of the graphical-user interface stuff that we did with the
Macintosh was pioneered at Xerox PARC [the company's legendary Palo Alto Research Center]
and with Doug Engelbart at SRI [a future-oriented think tank at Stanford] in the
mid-'70s. And here we are, just about the mid-'90s, and it's kind of commonplace now. But
it's about a 10-to-20-year lag. That's a long time.
The reason for that is, it seems to take a very unique combination of
technology, talent, business and marketing and luck to make significant change
in our industry. It hasn't happened that often.
The other interesting thing is that, in general, business tends to be the
fueling agent for these changes. It's simply because they have a lot of money.
They're willing to pay money for things that will save them money or give them
new capabilities. And that's a hard one sometimes, because a lot of the people
who are the most creative in this business aren't doing it because they want to
help corporate America.
A perfect example is the PDA [Personal Digital Assistant] stuff, like Apple's
Newton. I'm not real optimistic about it, and I'll tell you why. Most of the
people who developed these PDAs developed them because they thought individuals
were going to buy them and give them to their families. My friends started
General Magic [a new company that hopes to challenge the Newton]. They think
your kids are going to have these, your grandmother's going to have one, and
you're going to all send messages. Well, at $1,500 a pop with a cellular modem
in them, I don't think too many people are going to buy three or four for their
family. The people who are going to buy them in the first five years are
mobile professionals.
And the problem is, the psychology of the people who develop these things is
just not going to enable them to put on suits and hop on planes and go to
Federal Express and pitch their product.
To make step-function changes, revolutionary changes, it takes that combination
of technical acumen and business and marketing -- and a culture that can
somehow match up the reason you developed your product and the reason people
will want to buy it. I have a great respect for incremental improvement, and
I've done that sort of thing in my life, but I've always been attracted to the
more revolutionary changes. I don't know why. Because they're harder. They're
much more stressful emotionally. And you usually go through a period where
everybody tells you that you've completely failed.
Is that the period you're emerging from now?
I hope so. I've been there before, and I've recently been there again.
As you know, most of what I've done in my career has been software. The Apple
II wasn't much software, but the Mac was just software in a cool box. We had to
build the box because the software wouldn't run on any other box, but
nonetheless, it was mainly software. I was involved in PostScript and the
formation of Adobe, and that was all software. And what we've done with
NEXTSTEP is really all software. We tried to sell it in a really cool box, but
we learned a very important lesson. When you ask people to go outside of the
mainstream, they take a risk. So there has to be some important reward for
taking that risk or else they won't take it
What we learned was that the reward can't be one and a half times better or
twice as good. That's not enough. The reward has to be like three or four or
five times better to take the risk to jump out of the mainstream.
The problem is, in hardware you can't build a computer that's twice as good as
anyone else's anymore. Too many people know how to do it. You're lucky if you
can do one that's one and a third times better or one and a half times better.
And then it's only six months before everybody else catches up. But you can do
it in software. As a matter of fact, I think that the leap that we've made is
at least five years ahead of anybody.
Let's talk about the evolution of the PC. About 30 percent of American homes
have computers. Businesses are wired. Video-game machines are rapidly becoming
as powerful as PCs and in the near future will be able to do everything that
traditional desktop computers can do. Is the PC revolution over?
No. Well, I don't know exactly what you mean by your question, but I think that
the PC revolution is far from over. What happened with the Mac was -- well,
first I should tell you my theory about Microsoft.
Microsoft has had two goals in the last 10 years. One was to copy the Mac, and
the other was to copy Lotus' success in the spreadsheet -- basically, the
applications business. And over the course of the last 10 years, Microsoft
accomplished both of those goals. And now they are completely lost.
They were able to copy the Mac because the Mac was frozen in time. The Mac didn't
change much for the last 10 years. It changed maybe 10 percent. It was a sitting
duck. It's amazing that it took Microsoft 10 years to copy something that was a
sitting duck. Apple, unfortunately, doesn't deserve too much sympathy. They
invested hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars into R&D, but very little
came out They produced almost no new innovation since the original Mac itself.
So now, the original genes of the Macintosh have populated the earth. Ninety
percent in the form of Windows, but nevertheless, there are tens of millions of
computers that work like that. And that's great. The question is, what's next?
And what's going to keep driving this PC revolution?
If you look at the goal of the '80s, it was really individual productivity.
And that could be answered with shrink-wrapped applications [off-the-shelf
software]. If you look at the goal of the '90s -- well, if you look at the
personal computer, it's going from being a tool of computation to a tool of
communication. It's going from individual productivity to organizational
productivity and also operational productivity. What I mean by that is, the
market for mainframe and minicomputers is still as large as the PC market And
people don't buy those things to run shrink-wrapped spreadsheets and word
processors on. They buy them to run applications that automate the heart of
their company. And they don't buy these applications shrink-wrapped. You can't
go buy an application to run your hospital, to do derivatives commodities
trading or to run your phone network. They don't exist. Or if they do, you
have to customize them so much that they're really custom apps by the time you
get through with them.
These custom applications really used to just be in the back office -- in
accounting, manufacturing. But as business is getting much more sophisticated and
consumers are expecting more and more, these custom apps have invaded the front
office. Now, when a company has a new product, it consists of only three things: an
idea, a sales channel and a custom app to implement the product. The company
doesn't implement the product by hand anymore or service it by hand. Without the
custom app, it doesn't have the new product or service. I'll give you an example.
MCI's Friends and Family is the most successful business promotion done in the last
decade -- measured in dollars and cents. AT&T did not respond to that for 18
months. It cost them billions of dollars. Why didn't they? They're obviously smart
guys. They didn't because they couldn't create a custom app to run a new billing
system.
So how does this connect with the next generation of the PC?
I believe the next generation of the PC is going to be driven by much more
advanced software, and it's going to be driven by custom software for
business. Business has focused on shrink-wrapped software on the PCs, and
that's why PCs haven't really touched the heart of the business. And now they
want to bring them into the heart of the business, and everyone is going to
have to run custom apps alongside their shrink-wrapped apps because that's how
the enterprise is going to get their competitive advantage in things.
For example, McCaw Cellular, the largest cellular provider in the world, runs the whole front end of their business on NEXTSTEP now. They're giving PCs with custom apps to the phone dealers so that when you buy a cellular phone, it used to take you a day and a half to get you up on the network. Now it takes five minutes. The phone dealer just runs these custom apps, they're networked back to a server in Seattle, and in a minute and a half, with no human intervention, your phone works on the entire McCaw network.
In addition to that, the applications business right now -- if you look at even the shrink-wrap business -- is contracting dramatically. It now takes 100 to 200 people one to two years just to do a major revision to a word processor or spreadsheet. And so, all the really creative people who like to work in small teams of three, four, five people, they've all been squeezed out of that business. As you may know, Windows is the worst development environment ever made. And Microsoft doesn't have any interest in making it better, because the fact that its really hard to develop apps in Windows plays to Microsoft's advantage. You can't have small teams of programmers writing word processors and spreadsheets -- it might upset their competitive advantage. And they can afford to have 200 people working on a project, no problem.
With our technology, with objects, literally three people in a garage can blow
away what 200 people at Microsoft can do. Literally can blow it away. Corporate
America has a need that is so huge and can save them so much money, or make
them so much money, or cost them so much money if they miss it, that they are
going to fuel the object revolution.
That may be so. But when people think of Steve Jobs, they think of the man
whose mission was to bring technology to the masses -- not to corporate America.
Well, life is always a little more complicated than it appears to be.
What drove the success of the Apple II for many years and let consumers have
the benefit of that product was Visi-Calc selling into corporate America.
Corporate America was buying Apple IIs and running Visi-Calc on them like crazy
so that we could get our volumes up and our prices down and sell that as a
consumer product on Mondays and Wednesdays and Fridays while selling it to
business on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We were giving away Macintoshes to higher
ed while we were selling them for a nice profit to corporate America. So it
takes both.
What's going to fuel the object revolution is not the consumer. The consumer
is not going to see the benefits until after business sees them and we begin to
get this stuff into volume. Because unfortunately, people are not rebelling
against Microsoft. They don't know any better. They're not sitting around
thinking that they have a giant problem that needs to be solved -- whereas
corporations are. The PC market has done
less and less to serve their growing needs. They have a giant need, and they
know it. We don't have to spend money educating them about the problem -- they
know they have a problem. There's a giant vacuum sucking us in there, and
there's a lot of money in there to fuel the development of this object
industry. And everyone will benefit from that
I visited Xerox PARC in 1979, when I was at Apple. That visit's been written
about -- it was a very important visit. I remember being shown their
rudimentary graphical-user interface. It was incomplete, some of it wasn't even
right, but the germ of the idea was there. And within 10 minutes, it was so
obvious that every computer would work this way someday. You knew it with every
bone in your body. Now, you could argue about the number of years it would
take, you could argue about who the winners and losers in terms of companies in
the industry might be, but I don't think rational people could argue that every
computer would work this way someday.
I feel the same way about objects, with every bone in my body. All software
will be written using this object technology someday. No question about it. You
can argue about how many years it's going to take, you can argue who the
winners and losers are going to be in terms of the companies in this industry,
but I don't think a rational person can argue that all software will not be
built this way.
Would you explain, in simple terms, exactly what object-oriented
software is?
Objects are like people. They're living, breathing things that have knowledge
inside them about how to do things and have memory inside them so they can
remember things. And rather than interacting with them at a very low level, you
interact with them at a very high level of abstraction, like we're doing right
here.
Here's an example: If I'm your laundry object, you can give me your dirty clothes and send me a
message that says, "Can you get my clothes laundered, please." I happen to know where the
best laundry place in San Francisco is. And I speak English, and I have dollars in my pockets. So I
go out and hail a taxicab and tell the driver to take me to this place in San Francisco. I go get
your clothes laundered, I jump back in the cab, I get back here. I give you your clean clothes and
say, "Here are your clean clothes."
You have no idea how I did that. You have no knowledge of the laundry place.
Maybe you speak French, and you can't even hail a taxi. You can't pay for one,
you don't have dollars in your pocket. Yet I knew how to do all of that. And
you didn't have to know any of it. All that complexity was hidden inside of me,
and we were able to interact at a very high level of abstraction. That's what
objects are. They encapsulate complexity, and the interfaces to that complexity
are high level.
You brought up Microsoft earlier. How do you feel about the fact that Bill
Gates has essentially achieved dominance in the software industry with what
amounts to your vision of how personal computers should work?
I don't really know what that all means. If you say, well, how do you feel
about Bill Gates getting rich off some of the ideas that we had... well, you
know, the goal is not to be the richest man in the cemetery. It's not my goal
anyway. The thing I don't think is good is that I don't believe Microsoft has
transformed itself into an agent for improving things, an agent for coming up
with the next revolution. The Japanese, for example, used to be accused of just
copying -- and indeed, in the beginning, that's just what they did. But they
got quite a bit more sophisticated and started to innovate -- look at
automobiles, they certainly innovated quite a bit there. I can't say the same
thing about Microsoft. And I become very concerned, because I see Microsoft
competing very fiercely and putting a lot of companies out of business -- some
deservedly so and others not deservedly so. And I see a lot of innovation
leaving this industry. What I believe very strongly is that the industry
absolutely needs an alternative to Microsoft. And it needs an alternative to
Microsoft in the applications area -- which I hope will be Lotus. And we also
need an alternative to Microsoft in the systems-software area. And the only
hope we have for that, in my
opinion, is NeXT.
Microsoft, of course, is working on their own object-oriented operating system
-- They were working on the Mac for 10 years, too. I'm sure they're working on
it
Microsoft's greatest asset is Windows. Their greatest liability is Windows.
Windows is so nonobject-oriented that it's going to be impossible for them to
go back and become object-oriented without throwing Windows away, and they
can't do that for years. So they're going to try to patch things on top, and
it's not going to work.
You've called Microsoft the IBM of the '90s. What exactly do you mean by that?
They're the mainstream. And a lot of people who don't want to think about it
too much are just going to buy their product. They have a market dominance now
that is so great that it's actually hurting the industry. I don't like to get
into discussions about whether they accomplished that fairly or not That's for
others to decide. I just observe it and say it's not healthy for the country.
What do you think of the federal antitrust investigation?
I don't have enough data to know. And again, the issue is not whether they
accomplished what they did within the rule book or by breaking some of the
rules. I'm not qualified to say. But I don't think it matters. I don't think
that's the real issue. The real issue is, America is leading the world in
software technology right now, and that is such a valuable asset for this
country that anything that potentially threatens that leadership needs to be
examined. I think the Microsoft monopoly of both sectors of the software
industry -- both the system and the applications software and the potential
third sector that they want to monopolize, which is the consumer set-top-box
sector-- is going to pose the greatest threat to Americas dominance in the
software industry of anything I have ever seen and could ever think of. I
personally believe that it would be in the best interest of the country to
break Microsoft up into three companies -- a systems-software company, an
applications-software company and a consumer-software company.
Hearing you talk like this makes me flash back to the old Apple days, when
Apple cast itself in the role of the rebel against the establishment. Except
now, instead of IBM, the great evil is Microsoft. And instead of Apple that
will save us, it's NeXT. Do you see parallels here, too?
Yeah, I do. Forget about me. That's not important. What's important is, I see
tremendous parallels between the solidity and dominance that IBM had and the
shackles that that was imposing on our industry and what Microsoft is doing
today.... I think we came closer than we think to losing some of our computer
industry in the late '70s and early '80s, and I think the gradual dissolution
of IBM has been the healthiest thing that's happened in this industry in the
last 10 years.
What's your personal relationship with Bill Gates like?
I think Bill Gates is a good guy. We're not best friends, but we talk maybe
once a month.
A lot has been made of the rivalry between you two. The two golden boys of the
computer revolution --
I think Bill and I have very different value systems. I like Bill very much,
and I certainly admire his accomplishments, but the companies we built were
very different from each other.
A lot of people believe that given the stranglehold Microsoft has on the
software business, in the long run, the best NeXT can hope for is that it will
be a niche product.
Apple's a niche product, the Mac was a niche product And yet look at what it
did. Apple's, what, a $9 billion company. It was $2 billion when I left They're
doing OK. Would I be happy if we had a 10 percent market share of the
system-software business? I'd be happy now. I'd be very happy. Then I'd go work
like crazy to get 20.
You mentioned the Apple earlier. When you look at the company you founded now,
what do you think?
I don't want to talk about Apple.
What about the Power-PC?
It works fine. It's a Pentium. The Power-PC and the Pentium are
equivalent, plus or minus 10 or 20 percent, depending on which day you measure
them. They're the same thing. So Apple has a Pentium. That's good. Is it three
or four or five times better? No. Will it ever be? No. But it beats being
behind. Which was where the Motorola 68000 architecture was unfortunately being
relegated. It keeps them at least equal, but it's not a compelling advantage.
You can't open the paper these days without reading about the Internet and the
information superhighway. Where is this all going?
The Internet is nothing new. It has been happening for 10 years.
Finally, now, the wave is cresting on the general computer user. And I love it.
I think the den is far more interesting than the living room. Putting the
Internet into people's houses is going to be really what the information
superhighway is all about, not digital convergence in the set-top box. All
that's going to do is put the video rental stores out of business and save me a
trip to rent my movie. I'm not very excited about that. I'm not excited about
home shopping. I'm very excited about having the Internet in my den.
Phone companies, cable companies and Hollywood are jumping all over each other
trying to get a piece of the action. Who do you think will be the winners and
losers, say, five years down the road?
I've talked to some of these guys in the phone and cable business, and believe
me, they have no idea what they're doing here. And the people who are talking
the loudest know the least
Who are you referring to -John Malone?
I don't want to name names. Let me just say that, in general, they have no idea
how difficult this is going to be and how long it is going to take. None of
these guys understands computer science. They don't understand that that's a
little computer that they're going to have in the set-top box, and in order to
run that computer, they're going to have to come up with some very
sophisticated software.
Let's talk more about the Internet. Every month, it's growing by leaps and
bounds. How is this new communications web going to affect the way we live in
the future?
I don't think it's too good to talk about these kinds of things. You can open
up any book and hear all about this kind of garbage.
I'm interested in bearing your ideas.
I don't think of the world that way. I'm a tool builder. That's how I think of
myself. I want to build really good tools that I know in my gut and my heart
will be valuable. And then whatever happens is... you can't really predict
exactly what will happen, but you can feel the direction that we're going. And
that's about as close as you can get. Then you just stand back and get out of
the way, and these things take on a life of their own.
Nevertheless, you've often talked about how technology can empower people, how
it can change their lives. Do you still have as much faith in technology today
as you did when you started out 20 years ago?
Oh, sure. It's not a faith in technology. It's faith in people.
Explain that.
Technology is nothing. What's important is that you have a faith in people,
that they're basically good and smart, and if you give them tools, they'll do
wonderful things with them. It's not the tools that you have faith in -- tools
are just tools. They work, or they don't work. It's people you have faith in or
not. Yeah, sure, I'm still optimistic I mean, I get pessimistic sometimes but
not for long.
It's been 10 years since the PC revolution started. Rational people can debate
about whether technology has made the world a better place - The world's
clearly a better place. Individuals can now do things that only large groups of
people with lots of money could do before. What that means is, we have much
more opportunity for people to get to the marketplace -- not just the
marketplace of commerce but the marketplace of ideas. The marketplace of
publications, the marketplace of public policy. You name it. We've given
individuals and small groups equally powerful tools to what the largest, most
heavily funded organizations in the world have. And that trend is going to
continue. You can buy for under $10,000 today a computer that is just as
powerful, basically, as one anyone in the world can get their hands on.
The second thing that we've done is the communications side of it. By creating
this electronic web, we have flattened out again the difference between the
lone voice and the very large organized voice. We have allowed people who are
not part of an organization to communicate and pool their interests and
thoughts and energies together and start to act as if they were a virtual
organization. So I think this technology has been extremely rewarding. And I
don't think it's anywhere near over.
When you were talking about Bill Gates, you said that the goal is not to be the
richest guy in the cemetery. What is the goal?
I don't know how to answer you. In the broadest context, the goal is to seek
enlightenment -- however you define it. But these are private things. I don't
want to talk about this kind of stuff.
Why?
I think, especially when one is somewhat in the public eye, it's very important
to keep a private life.
Are you uncomfortable with your status as a celebrity in Silicon
Valley?
I think of it as my well-known twin brother. It's not me. Because otherwise,
you go crazy. You read some negative article some idiot writes about you -- you
just can't take it too personally. But then that teaches you not to take the
really great ones too personally either. People like symbols, and they write
about symbols.
I talked to some of the original Mac designers the other day, and they
mentioned the 10-year-annniversary celebration of the Mac a few months ago. You
didn't want to participate in that. Has it been a burden, the pressure to
repeat the phenomenal success of the Mac? Some people have compared you to
Orson Welles, who at 25 did his best work, and it's all down hill from there.
I'm very flattered by that, actually. I wonder what game show I'm going to be
on. Guess I'm going to have to start eating a lot of pie. [Laughs.] I don't
know. The Macintosh was sort of like this wonderful romance in your life that
you once had -- and that produced about 10 million children. In a way it will
never be over in your life. You'll still smell that romance every morning when
you get up. And when you open the window, the cool air will hit your face, and
you'll smell that romance in the air. And you'll see your children around, and
you feel good about it. And nothing will ever make you feel bad about it.
But now, your life has moved on. You get up every morning, and you might
remember that romance, but then the whole day is in front of you to do
something wonderful with.
But I also think that what we're now may turn out in the end to be more
profound. Because the Macintosh was the agent of change to bring computers to
the rest of us with its graphical-user interface. That was very important. But
now the industry is up against a really big closed door. Objects are going to
unlock that door. On the other side is a world so rich from this well of
software that will spring up that the true promise of many of the things we
started, even with the Apple II, will finally start to be realized. After
that ... who knows? Maybe there's another locked door behind this door, too; I
don't know. But someone else is going to have to figure out how to unlock that
one.
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