Frank Griffin a écrit :
Michael Scherer wrote:
To the defense of the drakx developpers, I do not think that choosing in
the installer is really a so good idea :
- during installation, you do not have web access. Thus, you will have a
hardtime to really find information on what does a software. If you use
rpmdrake, you can ask to friend, ask on forum, ask on a search engine.
This is really a more general issue of the availability of detailed help
during the install.
One of the strengths of Ubuntu. (Of course having paid documenters helps.)
To focus on package descriptions, which really
*are* of interest only to more advanced users (very few newbies know
enough about Linux to care about minimalist installs), completely misses
the point that there is a lot of other information about what's going on
in the install that *would* be of interest to newbies.
It depends what you put in the package descriptions. Something like
"You really should install this" is totally meaningless to almost everyone.
A good description is not necessarily highly technical. It is really
the application packages that a newbie would want to select,
dependancies will be automatically selected, as in now the case. If a
summary description is clear, that could be sufficient.
But I tend to think that a full description should be used for
application packages.
The issue, as always, is competition for space or bandwidth between help
and program content. If you access it through the network, people
without network access won't get it. If you put it on the media, it
redices the space available for programs.
Why not have "one" ISOs on "small" DVDs ?
Say 1G, 1,5G instead of 4,7G
We don't have to insist on CDs.
Maybe call them "one plus" ISOs ?
This is why I think that such help, package descriptions, etc., should
be separate from the rpms. In the past (and maybe still, as I haven't
done a from-media install for a while), the install asked the user if he
had additional media to use.
Addition media is still asked.
A slight expansion of this could ask how
many CDs/DVDs the user has available and whether the network will be
available (or should be activated) in order to access additional
packages and help content.
Network is always asked.
Unless the user has a fast connexion, help over the network would be a pain.
Even on a medium-speed connexion, 10x as fast as dialup.
Much better to download a DVD (or CDs). Then the actual installation
process will be much faster.
Of course downloading the occasional file would not be problematic.
For the install media, we should go back to the arrangement we had in
the multi-CD days. Cooker required something like 9 CDs for everything,
but the essentials were placed on the first CD, and content was arranged
on the others by type. The "standard " install used 2 or 3 CDs, and the
install basically tailored itself to the number of CDs available.
Multiple CDs has been replaced by DVDs. Much faster for the same amount
of data.
No swapping. And much more reliable.
A DVD is 7.2 650M CDs, or 6.7 700M CDs.
Of course the user would have to have a DVD writer to create one.
But most computers would be able to read one.
It might be a good idea to ship DVDs for a nominal fee.
We could even try to arrange shipping locally, for minimal costs.
In the same spirit, we could have a set of package-related ISOs, and one
or more documentation ISOs. If a non-network user wants extended help
and package descriptions in translated format, he obtains these ISOs.
If not, he doesn't. At the start of the install, the user gets a prompt
with checkboxes for each of the possible ISOs, and can indicate which
are available. For any that aren't, the install doesn't even try to use
what's on them. If the install detects enough available unused disk
space, then the first use of any ISO can copy some or all of the ISO to
hard disk for the duration of the install. Any prompt for an ISO has a
way for the user to say he really doesn't have that one, in which case
it is not prompted for again. All this should minimize the amount of
disk-swapping.
Lots of disks, but minimal disk-swapping ?
Why not a single DVD, and no disk-swapping ?
That answers the objections of those who don't want to have to download
many ISOs to do an install, and also addresses the needs of non-network
users (e.g. small schools) who want a full-featured set of install media
that can be reused repeatedly for friendly installs without network
access. It also minimizes disk-swapping, unless the system is really
tight on space, in which case the install is at least still possible,
albeit with some disk swapping (assuming the user wants to use multiple
ISOs).
Note that schools would generally have the bandwidth to download a DVD.
So little or no need for disk swapping.
The problem with all this is it makes things more complicated. For
Mageia. For new users. But maybe not so much for experienced users
with a large bandwidth. But are these the users we are addressing ?
As always, network users could opt to download dynamically anything they
didn't have ISO media for, with the same provision for caching, if space
allowed.
Localising the package descriptions shouldn't take a lot of space,
compared with localising the software included.
I really don't understand the real advantage of separating the package
description from the package. To save 1% of ISO space ? At what price
complexity ?
my 2 cents :)
- André
