I have been downloading updates for a while. When Alpha 2 is released, do I need to download it, or will the brew in the cauldron automagically re-brand my system as Alpha 2? The DVD would be handy to have as a more current medium for a re-install.
Doug, MDV 2010.2 On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 01:01:41 am [email protected] wrote: > Send Mageia-discuss mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Mageia-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. alpha1 cooker updates? (Tony Blackwell) > 2. Re: alpha1 cooker updates? (Anne nicolas) > 3. Re: Fwd: Sound in Mageia? (Colin Guthrie) > 4. Mirror (Juergen Harms) > 5. Re: Mirror (Oliver Burger) > 6. Re: Fwd: Sound in Mageia? (Wolfgang Bornath) > 7. Re: Mirror (Wolfgang Bornath) > 8. Re: Mirror (Michael Scherer) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 19:08:50 +1100 > From: Tony Blackwell <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Mageia-discuss] alpha1 cooker updates? > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Is alpha1 at the stage where I can point it to a cooker repository so > urpmi can find what is on cooker? Is there a utility yet so alpha1 will > notify me when new packages are available for download? > tonyb > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 12:30:10 +0100 > From: Anne nicolas <[email protected]> > To: Mageia general discussions <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Mageia-discuss] alpha1 cooker updates? > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi > > 2011/3/9 Tony Blackwell <[email protected]>: > > Is alpha1 at the stage where I can point it to a cooker repository so > > urpmi can find what is on cooker? Is there a utility yet so alpha1 will > > notify me when new packages are available for download? > > you mean cauldron ? :) > sure have a look here: > http://mirrors.mageia.org/ > > mdkonline is not yet imported so notification system for updates is > not ready yet > > Cheers > > > tonyb > > > > Op dinsdag 08 maart 2011 13:38:36 schreef Wolfgang Bornath: > >> 2011/3/8 Colin Guthrie <[email protected]>: > >>> Out of curiosity, what did you change it from and to? Can you supply > >>> the "pacmd list" output (just want to double check that the default > >>> profiles/ports are sensible on your h/w). > >> > >> I installed phonon-xine with its dependencies and then in the > >> multimedia section of the KDE configuration I put phonon-xine on top > >> of the list in the backend tab (before it showed only > >> phonon-gstreamer). > >> After that all sound applications worked (dragon, amarok, kscd, vlc, > >> firefox plugins, etc.). > >> > >> See output of "pacmd list" attached. > > > > i had a similar problem, but that was codec related of the gstreamer. on > > my machine, phonon-xine worked a lot better than phonon-gstreamer... > > The downside generally is that phonon-xine is not developed (neither is > xine itself), full of very annoying bugs, and has terrible support for > pulseaudio. GStreamer fixes all these issues but obviously introduces > others. Personally I don't have any problem with GST, but obviously > milages varies. > > FWIW, Wobo, what you changed was not "Speaker Configuration" as you > previously indicated... you changed the Phonon Backend. So my reasons > for asking the question no longer apply, which is good :) > > Col > > > 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 08/03/11 19:18 did gyre and gimble: > >> Op dinsdag 08 maart 2011 13:38:36 schreef Wolfgang Bornath: > >>> 2011/3/8 Colin Guthrie <[email protected]>: > >>>> Out of curiosity, what did you change it from and to? Can you supply > >>>> the "pacmd list" output (just want to double check that the default > >>>> profiles/ports are sensible on your h/w). > >>> > >>> I installed phonon-xine with its dependencies and then in the > >>> multimedia section of the KDE configuration I put phonon-xine on top > >>> of the list in the backend tab (before it showed only > >>> phonon-gstreamer). > >>> After that all sound applications worked (dragon, amarok, kscd, vlc, > >>> firefox plugins, etc.). > > > > FWIW, Wobo, what you changed was not "Speaker Configuration" as you > > previously indicated... you changed the Phonon Backend. So my reasons > > for asking the question no longer apply, which is good :) > > I was not precise enough. Here is what happened: > > 03/03/2011: > - I had to install task-pulseaudio with all dependencies AND > - backend was only phonon-gstreamer > - in speaker settings of "phonon" I changed sound device from > "Internal Audio" to "High Definition Audio Controller" > It worked. > > 08/03/2011: > After updates this setup did not work anymore. So I > - installed phonon-xine and put it on top in the backend tab > - changed sound device back to "Internal Audio", the output setting > to "Internal Audio Analog Stereo" > > Works in stereo with internal speakers and headphone. > > This is the current working setup with all updates installed (no > /testing repos set). > This is also the setup I created the "pacmd list" output. > > Sorry about the unclear report. > > > Talking to people at Switch brought up some facts which Mandriva should > > be aware of: > > ?- There is a heritage of bad experience that has been made with > > Mandriva. ?- It is not the first time that I hear the argument Mageia = > > Mandriva = forgetit. > > ?- Mageia happens at present to be perceived as "just another one of > > those distros that appear and disappear to oblivion" (maybe with a > > component of unfriendlyness towards Linux). > > Yes, I guess this is based on personal opinions and you can't really fight > that. > > > By the way, at my university there was a similar experience: Mandriva was > > part of the officially supported infrastructure (mirror, consultancy), > > with fees paid to Mandriva - that broke in dysharmony due to bad > > administrative response from Mandriva, leaving quite some ill feeling. > > Sorry if I wade through these negative arguments, but these > > beyond-the-enthusiast-user spotlights count. > > You can't compare this setup with anything related to Mageia. Mageia > does not ask to become a consultant to Switch and Mageia does not ask > for any fees. Furthermore "bad administrative response" is one of > those things about Mandriva that Mageia will avoid by all means. It > was caused by lack of manpower of a commercial company, something > which is totally different at Mageia. > > > I think that, when the stable release approaches, a small campaign to > > rectify these prejudices would be an excellent thing. > > Time to rectify those prejudices is now, at any time at any place (not > only with mirror providers but in general). > > > But I think that on the long-run there are lessons to be learned from the > > discussion with Switch - mirrors for a stable Mageia should be preferably > > hosted at professionally run mirror sites (who make the kind of > > consideration I quoted above), university solutions should come as > > additional icing. In case of a second round of discussion on how to > > organise Mageia mirrors, it might be a good idea to have that discussion > > with some participation from the mirror sites. > > I can not confirm nor agree to this. As Oliver wrote, 2 universities > already set up a mirror for Mageia and when looking around worldwide > who is hosting a Mandriva mirror you will notice that educational > institutions (aka universities) are the majority. > > Using MirrorBrain may or may not be an improvement (I can't judge > this) but IMHO it should not be a criterium to mirror or not. > > Of course, if Switch wants it that way then it is up to the Mageia > sysadmins to decide what is the better way - implementing MirrorBrain > to please Switch or not implement it and forget about Switch - not > speaking about other advantages/disadvantages which may come with > Mirrorbrain. > > > I have now arranged for a mirror to be set up at CUI - my old lab at the > > university of Geneva - I hope it will come up in time for alpha-2. > > That sound great, thanks. > > > CUI is glad to help, but that is not a permanent solution - CUI normally > > does not provide this kind of service - permanent mirroring services > > should be provided by Switch as soon as a stable Mageia release becomes > > available. I will pursue the discussion with Switch. > > Ie, not permanent, do you know how and why this would stop ? > > > Talking to people at Switch brought up some facts which Mandriva should > > > > be aware of: > > - There is a heritage of bad experience that has been made with > > Mandriva. - It is not the first time that I hear the argument Mageia = > > Mandriva > > > > = forgetit. > > > > - Mageia happens at present to be perceived as "just another one of > > > > those distros that appear and disappear to oblivion" (maybe with a > > component of unfriendlyness towards Linux). > > IMHO, our best bet for such case is to wait, so people can make their > minds and reconsider their position. I am not sure that trying to push > now is good. It take time to recover trust and make people forget where > do we come from. > > Our problem is that if we say "we are a mandriva fork", people think of > their bad experiences. If we don't, we appear as just yet another > distro. > > So maybe it would be better to engage first with people that do not have > negative experience with Mandriva rather than trying to convince people > who did have ? > > > By the way, at my university there was a similar experience: Mandriva > > was part of the officially supported infrastructure (mirror, > > consultancy), with fees paid to Mandriva - that broke in dysharmony due > > to bad administrative response from Mandriva, leaving quite some ill > > feeling. Sorry if I wade through these negative arguments, but these > > beyond-the-enthusiast-user spotlights count. > > Well, we should make clear to people that we started the project for the > same reasons that they broke from Mandriva, and that we are aware of the > problems. But IMHO, we should not try too hard to convince them to help > us, just say that we agree with them. The rest will come by itself. > > > I think that, when the stable release approaches, a small campaign to > > rectify these prejudices would be an excellent thing. > > That sound like a delicate task ( for the aforementioned reasons of > PR ). How would you start ? > > > Talking with the people at Switch who maintain the Switch mirroring > > service, there were also some concrete and technical arguments - I > > > > quote, translating from German: > > "the communication with the mirror sites at Mandriva had already been > > > > minimal, compared with other distros: announcing releases, checking the > > availability at the mirrors (QA), etc" (which is a mere quote, dont ask > > me to interpret). > > > > Switch is reluctant to maintain a mirror at "assembly language level" > > ("just run rsync every 2 hours"), they would prefer solutions using > > something like MirrorBrain - but probably Mandriva experiences are part > > of the background to this argument. > > Well, what do they need more precisely ? > > We understand well that they do not want to micromanage the mirror ( I > think no one does ), but then they can for sure understand that we > cannot adapt to everybody too on our side ( ie, another kind of micro > management ). > > And for mirrorbrain, I do not see how this relate to rsync, as the > software is used on distro side to distribute mirrors lists, if I > understand well. Rsync is still used to mirror around. > > If I remember, the problem of switch was "there is not enough users to > justify the mirroring" ( as you explained before ), and I do not think > this will be solved until one or two years, nor that mirrorbrain will > produce more users by magic. > > So maybe we should just wait to be credible when asking something to > them and be honest about that ? > > > At present, putting a mirror on a univeristy site puts it into an > > environment which is in good match to the straightforward rsync approach > > - correct for the alpha period of Mageia. > > Given the high number of university for all others distributions, I > think this is a good match for most of them :) > > > But I think that on the long-run there are lessons to be learned from > > the discussion with Switch - mirrors for a stable Mageia should be > > preferably hosted at professionally run mirror sites (who make the kind > > of consideration I quoted above), university solutions should come as > > additional icing. In case of a second round of discussion on how to > > organise Mageia mirrors, it might be a good idea to have that discussion > > with some participation from the mirror sites. > > I do not understand what you mean by "professionally run mirror". I > think this doesn't mean what you want it to mean. > > Switch.ch core "business" is not to run mirrors, this is to sell > connectivity ( to swiss schools ). The core "business" of a university > is not to host mirrors, but researchers and students. > > From my point of view, there is 2 motivations ( that can be > overlapping ): > - people who run mirrors to help free software > - people who run mirrors because this help them on various level > > A mirror can help to save bandwidth ( for example, free.fr is a french > provider, all linux user will likely go on their mirror as this is > faster ), or to leverage this for peering/trafic negotiation ( see > http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2008/09/peering-and-transit.ars , I > also recommend to see http://www.blogg.ch/uploads/peering-playbook.pdf , > given at the end of the article ). > > I think most universities does this to help free software, and because > they use internally. I think most volunteer-run mirrors, like the one of > Wobo fall in this category too. > > On the contrary, I suppose that most operators ( like switch to some > extend, but for free.fr, belgacom, etc ) does this for peering/trafic > reasons, and that mean they need to have enough traffic for this to be > useful for them, and enough users to justify the need. For now, I do not > think we are in a position to be interesting to this kind of mirrors. > > So what we could do is to ask for some metrics so we could now when we > will be able to reach a agreement, and try to have a multiple step > plan : > - first, we try to engage some universities ( or likely minded admins, > such as kernel.org, or others ), to cope with the load of the > distribution. Some being 4/5. > > - based on the feedback, we make sure that the documentation is correct, > that our procedure works, etc, etc. > > - once we have more and more people ( with metrics that have to be > found ), we try to find more mirrors. > > - once we are interesting enough to engage people in the connectivity > business, then we try to engage them ( likely not before one or two > years, maybe more ).
