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From: "Adrian Bye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: February 7, 2008 5:53:21 PM EST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fwd: [Mailman-Developers] Feedback for mailman developersBarry,Could you do me a huge favor and make sure this gets to the list. It doesn't show up in the archives.Warm regards, Adrian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Adrian Bye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Feb 7, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Feedback for mailman developers To: Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Cc: mailman-developers@python.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] , [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Hi guys,I've copied 3 people who emailed me since May 2007 about this issue. I don't know any of them, they just found my post from 3 years ago on the web and wrote to me. Clearly its important to them since they emailed me about it.Guys: I encourage you to subscribe to the mailman-developers list so you can communicate your needs directly with the mailman development team.The one-click unsubscribe is a critical feature for mailman and will open up a much larger interest base. I am not proposing 1-click unsubscribe for discussion mailing lists such as this one - that would obviously cause problems with people unsubscribing each other by mistake. However a lot of organizations use mailing list software to broadcast newsletters to their membership. If users cannot unsubscribe via some kind of (simple) 1-click interface then it limits the people who can use the system and may not be CANSPAM compliant. The FSF is one organization that has been running a newsletter for a while and they have had to manually handle unsubscribe requests. Peter Brown is copied as well as RMS and may be able to respond if necessary.When many users cannot unsubscribe from an announcement list (as the FSF used mailman for) they often don't bother, instead they just hit the "this is spam" button. Neither the sender or receiver notices anything when this happens. For the receiver, future emails from the list go into the trash, so hitting the "this is spam" button accomplished their purpose. The sender doesn't realise there was a problem because they never heard from the recipient. But the mail services know (eg hotmail/gmail/yahoo/aol) and they begin to mark the IP address/domain of the sender as a spam sender. This causes future WANTED mail from that sender to go into the trash.When we were experimenting with mailman 3 years ago, we found that in fact mailman already has a bad reputation for email. We found our mail was directly going into the trash when it included mailman headers. When we modified mailman to send but hide the mailman headers, we got directly into the inbox. This testing is 3 years old, and I don't remember the specific services we were testing to, but it included one of hotmail or yahoo.While mailman continues not to support easy unsubscribe in the footers, it will continue to hamper the growth of free software, as free software organizations will not have a reliable product to mail to broadcast to interested users. This demand is evidenced by the emails I get every 2 months from people asking me for this patch due to my emails in the archives from 3 years ago.I'm not here to get into a debate - I only joined the list again to ask to have that post removed because I'm tired of responding to these requests which I cannot help with.I hope this explains my point of view. Best of luck, Adrian On 2/7/08, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 5, 2008, at 4:07 PM, Adrian Bye wrote: > Hi guys (and RMS, copied), > > About 3 years ago I made this post: > > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman > -developers/2005-February/017850.html >> As a result, I get an email every 1-2 months from people asking for an> updated patch. It looks to me like there are really two separate unrelated features here. Distributing them in the same patch would make it difficult to review, discuss, test and integrate, regardless of whether they are good ideas or not. I would like to encourage you to develop your patches in a different way. I'm not making any promises about whether they would be integrated if you do this, but it would make it easier for us to look at, and I believe easier for your to maintain separately if you decide to continue to do so. I would highly recommend creating two separate Bazaar branches of the Mailman 2.1 code. Each would implement just one of your features. You could create a third branch with the whole thing if you wanted, but I don't think it would be necessary. You should then register on Launchpad and push these branches, publishing them in a live source code repository for all to see. I'm really trying to encourage this style of development. To me, patches living in a tracker is dead code. With a published, public branch, the entire process is more transparent, we can easily do a merge and test if we wanted to look at it. We can even find these branches easily via Launchpad. And you will have an easier time maintaining them, because as new revisions get pushed to Mailman 2.1 trunk, you can just merge, commit, and push to update your own branch. If you -- or anybody else -- has questions about this workflow, please ping me on #mailman on irc.freenode.net. I will happily walk you through it. Cheers, - -Barry -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) iD8DBQFHqvot2YZpQepbvXERAqmsAJ9H2Y9EBEIw03mDt/NPUHsL7EcYlACggzB3 pcP+bzgjF1D1dIv89m8VLCY= =BC8W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Adrian Bye Tasmania Consulting Group http://TasmaniaConsulting.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 305-433-8188 Fax: 305-428-2665 Mailing address: 8260 NW 14th St, EPS-Y12457 Doral, FL, 33126-1502 -- Adrian Bye Tasmania Consulting Group http://TasmaniaConsulting.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 305-433-8188 Fax: 305-428-2665 Mailing address: 8260 NW 14th St, EPS-Y12457 Doral, FL, 33126-1502
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