Hello,
Let me first say I was in no way competing with Cyndi's suggestion, I
should probably have prefaced by saying I think the option provided is a
good one. And again, we have no modifications to Mailman that is not
built in to modify (we have turned off personalization for example, but
no code modifications).
Double Opt-In is simply that the user stated twice that they want to
subscribe to the list. In Mailman's option, Double Opt-In would be
'Confirm'. Basically, it forces the subscriber to say "yes I want on
this list", and then say "yes, I really really really do want to be on
this list".
This way, if someone like say, Spam Arrest contacts us and says "we have
X spam complaint", we can contact the user and say "what's up", and they
say "here's when the user subscribed, here's when they said yea I really
want that", and now Spam Arrest leaves us alone and the list is not
blacklisted.
It's one of those double edged swords. In our case, it's not that we
don't trust our users (but have a TOS in place of course just in case),
it's that we don't trust other ISP's and Spam blackholes. For this
reason, the burden of proof is placed on the account holder.
If a user mass-subscribes say, 10,000 members from a list of addresses
they bought somewhere else, that user has absolutely no way to provide
proof that the subscriber ever opted in to that list SPECIFICALLY.
However, on the flip side, if a user is moving from another host, or has
multiple lists, or they're own signup pages/database, etc... they still
have they're own proof but are using the mass subscription option to
use. Hence why I personally do not think removing it entirely is a grand
idea, and why offering a way for hosts to control the subscription
process to a point could be very helpful.
Krystal
Fil wrote:
Hi Krystal,
I'd be interested to know what you call "double opt-in". Is it a web
subscription + email reply with the cookie, or double-that (and in
that case, what is the scenario).
FWIW I don't think the option Cindy proposes passes Occam's razor. For
the moment it looks like lots of complexity for a need that is not
well defined and certainly not generic. If the ISP has deliberately
crippled Mailman's interface up to the point it's not usable any more,
they should probably try and come up with a solution; or at least try
to explain (to the devs or the users) why and how.
-- Fil
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