Alain D D Williams wrote: > On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 01:06:15AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > I hate to disagree with everybody, but ... > > > > We need to get an articulare European lawyer, or at least find someone > > who has studied the subject.
If you or employer have money & time for that, do share results of - paying a lawyer to read those 88 EU pages, & answering questions - paying a programmer for development time for patches to Mailman. Maybe other major users of Mailman might afford to share costs. I won't. It's just EU law so far, but laws & interpretations vary by time & geography, This list is global, 191 countries in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states Best action for least effort, IMO is first someone to agree to commit a big default legal disclaimer in the Mailman source distribution, as a seperate localy served clickable link from top of http://mailman.YOUR-DOMAIN/mailman/listinfo That default Legal page would include a further clickable link to a dummy page for site local extra legal waffle. Once that's agreed t would be worth some of us workng on content. My suggestion, approx: Generic Preamble: Why Mailman Rules Are Necessary & Mandatory To All Users While Big [Anti-]Social Web providers, may get enough advertising revenue to employ people to deal with various legal pains ... Many Mailman sites have smaller lists, run Free by Unpaid volunteers with No free time for boring, annoyiny, risky legal hastles wasting their of time, (eg: logging & adjudcating internal or external complainers, users & authorities, discipling posters, editing archives, etc). Many Mailman sites & list admins would rather close down their free service rather than have their time forcibly wasted unpaid to provide & host free levels of "service" & abuse control, that users might be accustomed to have provided on larger commercial )often advert paid) [Anti-]Social web sites, (as first targeted by regulators etc). Some issues one might then cover in the generic, or leave to local site: eg: Those from previous posters to this thread + Liability Copyright Secrecy Security Posting means irrevocable publishing No right to use lists if you waste unpaid admins time. Incitement to this & that Right to inform authorities Non obligation of admins to have to waste time monitoring/ censoring etc. Anti hate crime/ adjitation laws V. free speach (eg As considered in Germany, reported in: Economist Jan 13-19th 2018 Page 21 "Freedom & its discontents") site owner doesnt necessarily agree views of archived posters etc Policy if members of a by default private archived list vote to make their archive public ? What if someone had posted, archived, then left list, sees it public, & now objects ? ) How to even technicaly & legaly establish objector is same person (or their rep. or inheritor or purchaser of copyright of initial postera or litigant against poster, or recipient of court order against poster ? Local server operator & global Mailman org disclaim liability, & no insurance to tempt lawyesr to sue (another can of worms ;-) Optionaly & asynchronously while some are drafting a generic legal page: A python programmer (or HTML editor, depending where) could add a switch so new users had to agree before joining list[s]. Whether switch should be per list or global, to be decided by who does the work. Switch might be a null string, updated to latest date when terms agreed. ? Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Brexit Referendum stole 3,700,000 votes, inc. 700,000 from British in EU. UK Govt. lied it's "democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3. Petition for votes: http://berklix.eu/queen/ ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org