On Fri, 2020-02-28 at 10:07 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 2/28/20 6:17 AM, Jim Popovitch via Mailman-Users wrote: > > On Fri, 2020-02-28 at 19:52 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > > Brian Carpenter writes: > > > > > > > I have hired a professional PHP developer to begin work on a new > > > > admin/forum interface for Mailman 3. > > > > > > Too bad. I really sympathize with your goals but am unlikely to be > > > able to contribute directly to implementation (assuming an eventual > > > open-sourcing). Never learned PHP, not going to do it anytime soon. > > > > Stephen, It's difficult for me to parse your thought process on this. > > Why do you say "Too bad" about someone wanting to improve something that > > you admit you want no part of? > > Well, Steve channeled me earlier, so I'll return the favor. I think > Steve is saying "Too bad" he is only talking about the choice of PHP as > a platform rather than Python. We absolutely encourage people to develop > alternatives to Postorius and HyperKitty for archiving and web > management of Mailman. I think all Steve is saying is he could be more > helpful with Python as opposed to PHP. > > See this paragraph: > > > > That's OK, the point of REST is so *you* *can* do that. I can only > > > speak for myself, but we can help to some extent on the Python side of > > > the REST interface. > > > > Who is this "we", you referenced them a few times in this email. > > See the initial paragraph in the Acknowledgements section at > <https://www.list.org/>;. > > > > > I'm fairly confident in saying that Mark has said (repeatedly now) that > > there will never ever ever ever ever be another Mailman2 release beyond > > v2.1.30. Stephen, why do you say there will be? Do you have the project > > authority to make that statement? Who do I beleive? > > Actually, I have said there will not be another release from the GNU > Mailman project. That does not preclude anyone from forking that project > from Launchpad and doing whatever with it.
I get that, but that sounds sharply different than what Stephen was saying. > I personally am not interested in porting Mailman 2 to Python 3. That's > already been done. The result, with a real backend database and some > extensions such as the concept of "user" that doesn't exist in MM 2, is > Mailman 3 core. > > > > What I'm reading between the lines is that > > nothing but Django was considered for MM3 (by "we") and everything else > > is inferior and not worth the time. I'd love to be wrong on that. > > The web based archiving and list management we distribute are based on > Django because that's how the people who developed those things wanted > to do it. > > The whole point of Mailman 3 is all that stuff is separate from the core > engine and communicates with core via a REST API, so there can be lots > of different web management UIs. We knew if we released Mailman 3 core > only without a web UI for list management and archive access, no one > would use it, so we needed those things and the people who were willing > to implement them built what we have. > > We certainly hoped that there would be people like Brian implementing > alternatives and we're glad to see it. > > > > Agreed. I didn't even know bounce processing wasn't working until > > > this summer (my production lists are all in-house to personal > > > acquaintances to same-university addresses -- if mail isn't flowing to > > > somebody, it's not going to anybody, even Mailman!) > > > > MM3 has been on python.org for a while, was it not noticed there either? > > Of course. We began discussing this almost 3 years ago > <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/issues/343#note_31870366>;. The > implementation was mostly done last year by a GSOC student. I think that is Brian's and a lot of other people's concern. 3 years to implement something into MM3 that was a core feature in MM2. I realize this next question is going to sound bombastic, I assure you it's not meant that way: What other things are missing or not available presently in MM3 that are taken for granite in MM2? > We are a small project. We have very few people working on Mailman on a > regular basis, and everyone is a volunteer, no one is paid. If you want > things to happen faster, please contribute. > ~$ grep "Jim Popovitch" ~/devel/Mailman/NEWS | wc -l 10 I don't think that I've been sitting on the fence, in fact I think I've been contributing a lot if you include not just source contributions but also the PPAs. I wouldn't say that I'm a principal developer, but I'm not off in some remote corner unfamiliar with the product and project. -Jim P. ------------------------------------------------------ Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org