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Today's Topics:
1. . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.
(Tracy Valleau)
2. Re: . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.
(Rob Willett)
3. Re: . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.
(Randall Meadows)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:44:04 -0800
From: "Tracy Valleau" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [MlMt] . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
As an Apple Developer since 1978, I can say that I quit using TM years
ago. It is a consumer-level product, with modest capabilities and
horrible reliability.
You asked for a solution. You need more robust backup software, which
offers a mimicking of TM.
Two extremely reliable options are Carbon Copy Cloner and Chronosync.
Both can be configured to run automatically whenever you like.
Chronosync is extremely versatile, and can out-do TM in its level of
granularity.
Tracy
www.valleau.art
On 14 Dec 2017, at 9:00, [email protected] wrote:
Send mailmate mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate... (Roger
Bohn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:45:44 -0800
From: "Roger Bohn" <[email protected]>
To: "MailMate Users" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
I have had this situation for many YEARS, long before I got MailMate.
The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,
inexplicable stalls. I say
"inexplicable" because Activity Monitor shows essentially no CPU,
network, or disk activity -- but the backup just *stops*.
The problem is worse, the more Time Machine needs to back up. And for
reasons I have never figured out, even a routine backup on TM (of a
few
hours of material) can have 5GB of files to go through. As a result,
I
can get into a situation where TM is completely unable to get up to
date.
So I don’t know a solution, but don’t be too sure that it is
really
due to MM. If anyone finds a solution, please drop me a line!
One thing that helps is to switch from WiFi to a hard ethernet
connection. For some reason, TM is considerably faster that way.
Roger Bohn, UC San Diego
[email protected]
On 10 Dec 2017, at 18:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses
MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine
performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which
has
a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not having any trouble.
The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,
inexplicable stalls. I say "inexplicable" because Activity Monitor
shows essentially no CPU, network, or disk activity -- but the
backup
just *stops*. I normally don't run MailMate on one of the laptops;
its
backups complete in a rational amount of time. When I do, it sees
the
same stalls. In fact, I'm running MailMate on it right now so that I
can see what happens on my primary laptop when I exit MailMate. Sure
enough, that machine is now behaving.
My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large
directories
on APFS file systems, but I don't know that for sure. I have some
very
large mailboxes, though, and these are of course active when
MailMate
is running. And of course, that doesn't explain why I don't see any
system activity.
Is anyone else seeing this? Does anyone have any work-arounds, other
than "don't have such large mailboxes" or "don't run APFS"? I do
have
a new laptop on order; I'm seriously tempted to reformat it as HFS+
before I start using it.
--Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 18:05:48 +0000
From: "Rob Willett" <[email protected]>
To: "MailMate Users" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and
MailMate.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
I can only second what Tracey says.
I use Carbon Copy Cloner AND Chronosync as they have slightly
different
use cases. I tend to use Chronosync for full archived backups and CCC
for disk clones but thats just me. I suspect I could use only one
system
and be very happy.
I have had too many issues with TM and it's no longer allowed to be
used
on any Mac I own.
Rob
On 14 Dec 2017, at 17:44, Tracy Valleau wrote:
As an Apple Developer since 1978, I can say that I quit using TM
years
ago. It is a consumer-level product, with modest capabilities and
horrible reliability.
You asked for a solution. You need more robust backup software, which
offers a mimicking of TM.
Two extremely reliable options are Carbon Copy Cloner and Chronosync.
Both can be configured to run automatically whenever you like.
Chronosync is extremely versatile, and can out-do TM in its level of
granularity.
Tracy
www.valleau.art
On 14 Dec 2017, at 9:00, [email protected] wrote:
Send mailmate mailing list submissions to
[email protected]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[email protected]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[email protected]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of mailmate digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate... (Roger
Bohn)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:45:44 -0800
From: "Roger Bohn" <[email protected]>
To: "MailMate Users" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
I have had this situation for many YEARS, long before I got
MailMate.
The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,
inexplicable stalls. I say
"inexplicable" because Activity Monitor shows essentially no CPU,
network, or disk activity -- but the backup just *stops*.
The problem is worse, the more Time Machine needs to back up. And
for
reasons I have never figured out, even a routine backup on TM (of a
few
hours of material) can have 5GB of files to go through. As a result,
I
can get into a situation where TM is completely unable to get up to
date.
So I don’t know a solution, but don’t be too sure that it is
really
due to MM. If anyone finds a solution, please drop me a line!
One thing that helps is to switch from WiFi to a hard ethernet
connection. For some reason, TM is considerably faster that way.
Roger Bohn, UC San Diego
[email protected]
On 10 Dec 2017, at 18:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses
MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine
performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which
has
a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not having any trouble.
The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,
inexplicable stalls. I say "inexplicable" because Activity Monitor
shows essentially no CPU, network, or disk activity -- but the
backup
just *stops*. I normally don't run MailMate on one of the laptops;
its
backups complete in a rational amount of time. When I do, it sees
the
same stalls. In fact, I'm running MailMate on it right now so that
I
can see what happens on my primary laptop when I exit MailMate.
Sure
enough, that machine is now behaving.
My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large
directories
on APFS file systems, but I don't know that for sure. I have some
very
large mailboxes, though, and these are of course active when
MailMate
is running. And of course, that doesn't explain why I don't see
any
system activity.
Is anyone else seeing this? Does anyone have any work-arounds,
other
than "don't have such large mailboxes" or "don't run APFS"? I do
have
a new laptop on order; I'm seriously tempted to reformat it as HFS+
before I start using it.
--Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
_______________________________________________
mailmate mailing list
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https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:18:28 -0700
From: "Randall Meadows" <[email protected]>
To: "MailMate Users" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and
MailMate.
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
On 14 Dec 2017, at 10:44, Tracy Valleau wrote:
As an Apple Developer since 1978, I can say that I quit using TM
years
ago. It is a consumer-level product, with modest capabilities and
horrible reliability.
You asked for a solution. You need more robust backup software, which
offers a mimicking of TM.
Two extremely reliable options are Carbon Copy Cloner and Chronosync.
Both can be configured to run automatically whenever you like.
Chronosync is extremely versatile, and can out-do TM in its level of
granularity.
Neither of which, though, do "versioned" backups like TM does, right?
You only get the most recent "snapshot" of the drive, not any history
of
any items?
(I use CCC nightly for a quick-recovery in case of major disk failure,
and TM to save my butt when I do something silly in `git`...)
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