On 8 March 2018 at 00:08, Laura Atkins <la...@wordtothewise.com> wrote:
> [...]
> I don’t either, but I am not fighting language with folks.

I'm sorry Laura. My mother language is not english and your "tone" is
unexpected to me, so I probably used wrong translations for my
No need to fight anything.. I'm just discussing in a list and trying
to give and get back like I always do.

> [...]
> I have, and know other people who have, and again, this was discussed
> earlier this month at M3AAWG.

I'm not in M3AAWG, but I hoped that some info that can be shared in
the M3AAWG could be anonymized and shared here too.
If this is not the case, then ok, I just asked. Maybe someone else
will feel to share something.

> But, it’s kinda a big deal to call out stuff like this and while we’ve
> called out blocking companies / blacklists in the past, I’m not in a
> position where I think that will provide an overall benefit by making the
> information public. It’s also not like I’m the only person who knows this.
> In one instance with a client, they were using one of the aforementioned
> delivery monitoring companies and saw a “pristine trap" hit. They were able
> to identify the specific address as the company provides the full text of
> the message. They had recent (within a few weeks) click data from that
> address and a purchase within a few months.

OK so if I got it right then these "delivery monitoring" spamtraps are
not really used by anyone but the delivery monitoring service itself.
It helps the paying ESP/ISP to identify problematic senders in their
network and they also need spamtraps for them.. maybe they have too
few of them so they have been a bit "easy" introducing new domains to
have more data to monetize.

In this case either they had a bug, needs to better document how they
create spamtraps or they are "abusing" their customers trust.
We can agree that it is hard to define what can be a spamtrap and how
many months are needed for them to become spamtraps, but I think we
all agree that a valid/working inbox can't become a spam trap in a

>> Can you give some hint about the spamtrap network?
> I did, in the original paragraph.

OK, thank you.

> [...]
> I don’t keep that information around. I don’t want to know what traps are. I
> don’t want to know what domains traps are using. Overall, I don’t want to
> have that trail. I can’t reveal what I don’t record. When I do run into a
> trap or set of traps or domains I just let it be forgotten.
> If that makes me untrustworthy to you, I totally understand. I’ve given you
> no reason to believe me and here I am refusing to give you a reason or
> examples. Even worse, I am making very logical arguments about why I may not
> have kept said evidence. I get why you don’t believe and don’t want to
> believe. The best I can hope for is you’ll keep an open mind and look
> through your own data and test data you have to see if you can confirm it.

No problem Laura, thank you anyway for you great contributions to this list!


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