It’s abuse.
And it takes many forms.
There are many stories like Mr. Rathbun’s … already enunciated.
And then there’s stuff like this:
http://www.honet.com/Nadine/default.htm
And there are new exploits creating havoc all the time.
https://www.spamhaus.org/news/article/734/subscription-bombing-coi-captcha-and-the-next-generation-of-mail-bombs
Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Got the Junk Mail Reporting
Tool<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ?
From: David Hofstee <opentext.dhofs...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 2:55 AM
To: Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com>
Cc: o...@iki.fi; mailop <mailop@mailop.org>
Subject: Re: [mailop] Gmail - Anybody out there from Gmail, willing to assist
with strange reputation issue
Hi Michael,
Just curious and to ensure I understand correctly:
You see email from well-behaving businesses (asking for the opt-in in a correct
way, sending good newsletters et al, having good offline reputation) being
flagged continuously as spam because people put in other peoples email
addresses? In larger numbers (i.e. not one-offs)?
I've often wondered where the 0.01% to 0.02% base rate FBL complaints come
from. I've always attributed it to people being lazy/hateful, pressing the spam
button. Is this related?
I've seen address quality issues where:
- The opt-in was bad
- The process of entering the address was complicated / manual
- Form spam (DDoS type and other)
- Specific customers being harassed by "people" who were mistreated IRL
- Specific customers being harassed by criminals
But not what you (seem to) describe.
Much appreciated,
David
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 at 17:03, Michael Wise
<michael.w...@microsoft.com<mailto:michael.w...@microsoft.com>> wrote:
My experience is far different from yours.
But then, I see the bad side of it all the time.
Comes with the job.
Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Got the Junk Mail Reporting
Tool<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fdownload%2Fdetails.aspx%3Fid%3D18275&data=02%7C01%7CMichael.Wise%40microsoft.com%7Ccc787769c1d34dc0f78008d60d9590fb%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636711333367408691&sdata=IlCVKbovYQjjlhjV%2BzYOF6i2V5jfjb%2FLQ15Hrg30is0%3D&reserved=0>
?
From: mailop <mailop-boun...@mailop.org<mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org>> On
Behalf Of David Hofstee
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 6:28 AM
To: o...@iki.fi<mailto:o...@iki.fi>
Cc: mailop <mailop@mailop.org<mailto:mailop@mailop.org>>
Subject: Re: [mailop] Gmail - Anybody out there from Gmail, willing to assist
with strange reputation issue
Hi Otto,
It is not my experience that many people will fill in other people's email
address. I've seen 100's of millions of subscribers. Most did not have double
opt-in. It mostly went very well. There are cases of form-spam (see e.g.
Spamhaus a few years ago) and double opt-in prevents typo's. But there are
other methods to deal with abuse (in all of its appearances).
So I'm not sure that your opinion towards double opt-in (where customers not
using it should be seen as spamming) is in line with the numbers I saw. I
understand the push from the anti-spam community (who have issues in
discriminating criminals and commercial senders having equally bad/good data
quality). But this technical solution is, imho, the wrong tool for that. As
Microsoft, Yahoo and Google have found out, feedback from users via alternate
systems is much better. But that is not yet integrated into RFCs for the rest
of us to use.
I'll leave the "confirmed opt-in" vs "double opt-in" discussion as it is.
Yours,
David
On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 at 09:02, Otto J. Makela <o...@iki.fi<mailto:o...@iki.fi>>
wrote:
On 2018-08-23 22:10, Jan Schapmans wrote:
> * customer doesn’t want to do double optin, we are pushing to only implement
> it for gmail & googlemail addresses.
This should definitely raise red flags at your end: customer doesn't
care about how good the "leads" are, as long as there are many.
This is "Millions CD" level thinking.
BTW, a much better term is "confirmed opt-in", because that's what it is.
Most companies that want to contact you by email can get it right (send single
email with confirmation link as part of registration etc.), why should your
customer get a special pass not to do it?
--
/* * * Otto J. Makela <o...@iki.fi<mailto:o...@iki.fi>> * * * * * * * * * */
/* Phone: +358 40 765 5772, ICBM: N 60 10' E 24 55' */
/* Mail: Mechelininkatu 26 B 27, FI-00100 Helsinki */
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