> On 28 Dec 2018, at 12:47, Stefano Bagnara <mai...@bago.org> wrote: > > On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 at 12:40, Laura Atkins <la...@wordtothewise.com> wrote: >> I sent Ben a long-ish email with some specific information and suggestions. >> And I say this as someone who does delivery for a living. These types of >> complaints and “whining time” are wholly inappropriate for mailop. > > IMO the feedback from Benjamin is very useful for both Microsoft > (sounds like Ben found a bug, considering the previous answer from > Michael) and for us (so we don't waste days trying to understand weird > issues when we know someone else already saw the same thing).
This isn’t a weird issue, though. It may have been, at one point, but Microsoft is, overwhelmingly, telling Benjamin “enough of our users are reacting in a way that means your mail is spam that we’re going to put it in the bulk folder.” I outlined those signals in my mail to him, but I’m happy to share them here. 1) Mail going to the bulk folder? That sign says: Your mail is bad, our users don’t want it and we’re going to protect them from it. 2) Mail going to the bulk folder after reaching the inbox because you changed IPs? Our users are telling us that when we put your mail in the inbox they don’t want it there. 3) The closing of tickets without any response? We’ve told you repeatedly what you need to do to fix things and you aren’t paying any attention. We’re tired of sending you the same information, and there’s nothing more we’re able to tell you. 4) The overruling of address book whitelisting? This mail is so bad and the sender has such a poor reputation, we’re not going to let it go to the inbox even when the user adds the sender to their inbox. > I understand Ben frustration: Outlook show a weird behaviour, he would > like to do the right thing and submit feedback to Microsoft so to "fix > the issue" but he didn't find the way. He could workaround the issue > by moving the email to new IPs periodically but he invest his time > trying to do "the right thing”. Moving to new IPs is one way to try and reset filters. In this case, it worked briefly. That tells us everything we need to know, and the problem here isn’t microsoft, in my experience. Your mail got put in the inbox, 2 weeks later it started going to bulk again. That, to me, is unarguably a sign that the recipients are the problem. They are acting in ways that tells Microsoft that the mail is unwanted. The moving back to the spam folder is the filters are reacting to user response. The recipients don’t want the mail, therefore Microsoft is putting it in their spam folder. > IMHO "whining" is not necessarily something done to bore Microsoft or > Michael, but simply sharing the "mood" after spending days trying to > guess behaviours. Whining was his words, not mine. > We all appreciate each other dedication to fix issues, but often > issues with Microsoft are lost: Michael is not a superhero and no one > expect him to be able to deal with everything, but I think we should > encourage sharing the issues even if Michael was not subscribed to > this list, because "operations" are often made simpler if you know > someone else is experiencing the same issues. > > Laura, I think your answer to Ben could have been interesting for > others here, but for sure I can say I'd be happy to read it in the > mailop list. While there are significant issues with how Microsoft is delivering mail, there is nothing that has been said in this particular situation that makes me think that the problem here is Microsoft. laura -- Having an Email Crisis? We can help! 800 823-9674 Laura Atkins Word to the Wise la...@wordtothewise.com (650) 437-0741 Email Delivery Blog: https://wordtothewise.com/blog
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